Parent's Love vs Salvation

[plumbervol]

This is something that intrigues me. Salvation versus interaction with a child

I am not having this problem with any of my Children but I have friends and old school family that are.

Example the adult is Christian and believes in a strict interpretation of what is acceptable and what must be followed or not done to gain salvation. I know of parents of gay children that are so scared their Children will not gain salvation because they are GAY they bug the kid to death or even shun the child trying to change the behaviour. Not necessarily because of shame or disapointment but because of fear of their childs lost salvation.

They actually pushed them away trying change behaviour. In other cases I am around it involve divorce and re marriage without having a marriage anulled. The parent believes the child is living in Adultrey and hope tough love will force the kid to take the proper steps to get right with God..

My response has always been pushing them away will not change behaviour. Keep them close and pray. But many times the fear of the loss of the most special love of your life-Children will be lost from God's plan for salvation causes weird behaviour.....


Any comments?

[roustabout]

PV,

Let's look to the Word and see what it says.

Re: Divorce
Malachi 2:16a: “I hate divorce, says the Lord God of Israel.”
Matt 5:32 "But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery."

We must remember that Jesus said he came not for the righteous but for the sinner. There is always hope for the sinner. I know there was for me.

And we must also remember that "No one can come to me(Jesus) unless the Father who sent me draws him," John 6:44
Do you ever find it curious that people who live in oppressive Islamic countries come to Christ. It's happening. Even though this is punishable by prison and death, they reject Islam to embrace Christ. Did you know that people who grow up in oppressive homes come to Christ? 

I had such a distorted life growing up. Parents that went to church but loved the world. My 1st exposure to alcohol, pot and pornography was in my home. Yet God found me and saved me. My point is that we don't gain salvation by following some prescription. It is a work of God, not of man. Yes, the work of God will produce steps. But too often we get it backwards. We try to manufacture a process to get a result, instead of seeking a God who will produce.

Yes we Christians love to wag our fingers, and often are the biggest road block to getting someone in the body of Christ. But the problem for most of these parents is deeper than their finger waving.

The bible makes a promise.  "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is older he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6
The problem is most parents are NOT training up their children in the fear and admonishion of the Lord. They think taking their kids to church fulfills this. It does not. Most teens can name you 10 brand names of beer but can't tell you all 10 commandments. Most spend more time on TV, video games, etc. than they do in God's Word. And then we wonder why they chase after the world and the desires of the flesh, and reject the word of God. The parents have an inkling of what is right and wrong. So, their only response is to berate and reject the child. They still don't have a Christian home. They think they do but they don't.

God has intrusted our children to us, and most of us fail miserably. We turn them over to public schools, TV, video games. Then when they are older we wonder why they are having sex, doing drugs, rebelling, and all other sorts of things. "But I took them to church?" we cry. "I even enrolled them in Catholic school." But our homes were never sanctified to God. Neither were our minds. We teach our children that college is important. "Get a good education, get a good job, make money, have a title, BE ONE WITH THE WORLD." You shall have no other God's before Me.

Out of one side of our mouths we say "God is #1" but our actions (fruit) don't show it.

Fear. I know people who fear not fitting in. They fear not having enough money. They fear their marriage is falling apart. They fear they will lose their job. They fear, fear, fear. Somehow it's OK to fear the world, but when someone says fear the Lord, suddenly fear is a bad thing. It is a fear of the Lord that overcomes these fears and every other. I can guarantee you that the kid who is feeding homosexual tendencies does not fear the Lord. The kid who is fooling around with girls is not in fear of the Lord. There are kids who actually fear not losing their virginity by a certain age.

The bible tells us to "hold every thought captive to the obedience of Christ." What you feed grows, what you starve dies. If a child with a homosexual tendency feeds this, it will grow. What if a kid with sexual desires feeds his mind with porn? You think he might have problems with sexual impurity? But ultimately that is just a symptom of a deeper issue. As is homosexuality. Jesus said, "deny yourself." The world says, "if it feels good, do it." See any conflict there?

Divorce is the product of selfishness. And those that blatantly disobey God and remarry live in fear that they will be alone.

[plumbervol]

Without hunting for verses that justify what I already know I understand the behaviour is wrong. My question what is the role of the parent? Specifically as they make wrong decisions as Adults?

[Dementia_Madness]

The fact is PV, people do not "Lose" the chance of salvation because of any particular Sin. In fact as far as I know the bible specifically says there is only one sin that is unto death. The fact that someone is gay does not disqualify them from salvation, the only thing that keeps anyone from being saved is the desire NOT to be saved. Plain and simple. That is the sin against the Holy spirit the bible says is not the last straw. In other words there comes a point when we are so far away from God that there is no turning back, he has given us every reason to accept Salvation and for our own selfish desires we say "no." In other words we run to Hell as if it salvation and away from salvation as if it was Hell itself.

Being a parent means teaching our children as best we can what we know to be right and wrong, and as far as that goes just like God's salvation and willingness to accept us as the sinners we are, we should accept our children as they are, either saved or unsaved. If they are saved, we rest in that salvation, but if they are not, we can only live the life we know we should and hope they see the beauty in God that we have found, in the end it's between God and them, and either their hearts are softend, or hardened by the FACT of God and what he asks of us.

We love our Children until there is nothing left in them that is worth loving. Truth is the ONLY thing lovable in any of us is the grace of God within us, once that is gone, there is only a creature deserving of the eternal fires of hell. Gay people are not going to hell because they are gay, just like straight people are not saved because they are straight, the only reason anyone goes to hell is because they deserve it, not in my eyes or yours but in the only eyes that matter, God's. Do you or I deserve salvation any more than anyone else, who's to say, all I know is that salvation was offered, the price was paid and I am so glad for that fact, whether I deserve it or not, especially if I don't that makes it that much more precious in my mind, and to anyone who thinks that ANY desires here on earth is worth even the chance that we are not saved I ask is it really that important to get what you want here, even if you believe with all your heart there is nothing wrong with it, when in the end if it is wrong to God and not in fact the way he wants us to be?

I could be wrong, but then again, when we start saying sins are not sins, so people can feel better about themselves here and now, where do we draw the line, and if sins are not that bad, and Jesus Christ himself died to save us from them, how much does that speak of the value of his life, and his sacrifice?

I can promise you this NO-ONE will go to hell because they are Gay....the only reason any of us will go to hell is because we are sinners, we deserve Hell and we turned down the gift of salvation when it was offered to us. No one will be in Hell who doesn't deserve to be, and NONE of us have any chance of slipping into the back door of heaven, in the end, despite our feelings, Gods people will be with God and everyone else will be where they belong, deserve to be, and truthfully chose to be.

[roustabout]

I guess my point PV is that God saves people in spite of bad parenting, or parents who corrupt the gospel. 

I can't be specific because I don't know what these parents are doing specifically.

I know one thing. Arguing or finger pointing at a homosexual over his or her lifestyle is not the answer. Of all the crowds that came to see Jesus He stopped and called on Zaccheaus. I doubt he got a lot of good loving advice from his folks.

My biggest contention with these parents would be their own salvation. I would address that. Are they the tares among the wheat? Why is the fruit of their household not worthy of repentance? Was their home truly sanctified to the Lord???

[Dementia_Madness]

Who woulda thunk that Pv was a lifetime channel watcher?

http://www.mylifetime.com/on-tv/movies/prayers-bobby

Academy Award nominee and Golden Globe winner Sigourney Weaver stars in this emotional true story about a 1970s religious suburban housewife and mother who struggles to accept her young son Bobby being gay. What happens to Bobby is tragic and causes Mary to question her faith; ultimately this mom changes her views in ways that she never could have imagined.

Weaver says 'Prayers' for Lifetime
Monday, January 26, 2009 6:02 PM EST
The Associated Press
By MICHAEL CIDONI Associated Press Writer

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Here's big-screen and stage veteran Sigourney Weaver in a most unexpected place: A made-for-TV movie on Lifetime Television.

The cable network, once known for "Golden Girls" reruns and tawdry telefilms, has recently scored critical and ratings success with its series "Army Wives," and last year's original movie "Coco Chanel" earned both Golden Globe and Screen Actors Guild nominations for star Shirley MacLaine.

Now another A-list feature-film star is taking the lead role in "Prayers for Bobby," arguably the network's loftiest and most ambitious production yet.

"I'll admit I was first surprised by their involvement in this," Weaver said, while promoting the film at a hotel earlier this month. "But the way they've supported this from start to finish — and it's been a long for them — is proof that they're serious about changing the face of the network."

Lifetime's reach was another draw for Weaver: "More people will see this in one airing than may ever see some of the features I've done. And there's a message here that a lot of people need to hear."

Based on a true story and the book by Leroy Aarons, "Prayers for Bobby" is about Mary Griffith, played by Weaver, a devoutly Christian mother who disowns her gay son over his sexuality. Griffith blames herself for her son's subsequent suicide, and finds solace not in her church, but PFLAG (Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesb!ans and Gays), and has since become a gay activist.
The role wasn't an easy one for Weaver.

"I think all I did was think about how much I love my daughter and if she had something that was weighing on her, that she felt was bigger than her and that she wouldn't be able to come to me and have me listen," Weaver said, getting teary. "I'm not saying it's not frightening for the parents. I think it would be very frightening. I think all parents do is try to keep their kids from leading lives that are dangerous or unsafe. And this is a tough life."

Weaver has kept in touch with the real-life Griffith, whom she met during production.

"One of her grandchildren just came out who is 15," Weaver said, getting misty again. "And Bobby would be so proud because it was greeted with such unconditional love from the entire family and they said, 'We're proud of you.'"

"Prayers for Bobby" premiered over the weekend and will be replayed Tuesday night (Jan. 26) on Lifetime.

Being a parent means teaching our children as best we can what we know to be right and wrong, and as far as that goes just like God's salvation and willingness to accept us as the sinners we are, we should accept our children as they are, either saved or unsaved. If they are saved, we rest in that salvation, but if they are not, we can only live the life we know we should and hope they see the beauty in God that we have found, in the end it's between God and them, and either their hearts are softend, or hardened by the FACT of God and what he asks of us.

We love our Children until there is nothing left in them that is worth loving.

In the end however let us examine this topic at it's base value...if it is indeed Parent's Love vs Salvation, which is more important? On the eternal scheme, when your child goes to hell, will they be thinking "gee I a m sure glad my parents loved me and accepted me!" I do believe it is wrong to "disown" anyone, as if we could actually do such a thing, our children were always and will always be a product of the parents, just as we are produced from the generations that came before us, we may claim to have the power to disown each other, but that is simply a childish claim, in the end only God has that power. Love vs Salvation which is indeed more important, and if you love your children, your friends, or neighbors to hell, is that truly love of them of love of self? If you love someone is salvation not the desired state for anyone we love?

The real question here is, man's ideal of sin and forgivness and love and God's ieal of the same.... How do we know what those are? Only one way. BIBLE.

My response has always been pushing them away will not change behaviour. Keep them close and pray. But many times the fear of the loss of the most special love of your life-Children will be lost from God's plan for salvation causes weird behaviour.....

I agree....but also the fear and loss we hope to avoid by not even addressing the subject to those who are in open rebelion to God causes this strange behavior. Tell your loved ones when you see they are going down thw wrong path, tell them you love them at the same time, if they expect you to accept them, they should also be just as willing to accept the fact that you are against their behavior and choices, they have to accept who you are as well.

[Dementia_Madness]

Let us change this scenario around a bit.

Let us say instead of homosexuality it is another sin your child has come out of the closet about, like lying or stealing.

How doeas a parent handle those cases? What do you do when your child or adult children have been shown to be liars or thieves?

What if your child was guilty of Adultry?

Rape?

Incest?

Pedophilia?

Witchcraft?

Murder?

How are these different and how are they the same, is there such a thing as a sin that does not deserve hell?

[roustabout]

Again. What you feed grows, what you starve dies.

You could easily change this discussion to a sexually active straight teen. We have teenagers (and adults) marinating themselves in pornography not to mention what is on mainstream TV. They certainly aren't being marinated in biblical teaching.

I had a very good friend in HS who was gay. One day his sister took me to his room and showed me under his mattress, which was littered with gay porn. He fed his desires and later went into a blatantly dangerous sexual lifestyle. I wonder why?

A person may not have control of a natural feeling, but they certainly have control of whether or not to act on it. That is the problem. God's word says to hold every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. That is called surrendering your mind. Anyone who is engaging in illicit sexual behavior whether gay or straight is in violation. Period. Now we can finger wag, or we can teach, rebuke, train, and correct in righteousness. I'd say most parents fail miserably. They think bible teaching is done on a couple of hours on Sunday morning.

People somehow think they deserve sexual satisfaction. They think they deserve to be married.