Stimullus to Pass, But Obama has to learn from this

[roustabout]

QC, can you show what OMG asked. These projects and how they will employee people THIS YEAR.

[Sasquatch]

Let me make sure I understand. As an example, there is the construction of a frisbee golf course in the "stimulus" package.

1. The crew assigned to create this frisbee golf course (which includes how many illegals?) have a job for as long as it takes to build a frisbee golf course. 
2. Then what? Does the "stimulus" have another job lined up for this crew or is that it?
3. Does this count towards Obama's "3-4 million jobs created" thesis?

Any answers will be greatly appreciated.

[LTC]

A job...you nailed it sasquatch...a job which will put money in the pockets of those employed...which they will spend on goods and services...which will have to be produced, thus creating more permanent jobs...thus reducing the unemployment rolls....Oh, and that job created in the first place...will be created when a PRIVATE CONTRACTOR hires. But then that tax cut you idiots want to give employers...now that will help...NOT AS MUCH though!  If no one is buying the goods and services of a company, then a tax cut AIN'T gonna help anyone but the company getting the cut...You have noticed that PRIVATE COMPANIES are laying off employees and NOT HIRING?

You guys are totally misguided and ill-informed.

[Sasquatch]

A job...you nailed it sasquatch...a job which will put money in the pockets of those employed...which they will spend on goods and services...which will have to be produced, thus creating more permanent jobs...thus reducing the unemployment rolls....Oh, and that job created in the first place...will be created when a PRIVATE CONTRACTOR hires. But then that tax cut you idiots want to give employers...now that will help...NOT AS MUCH though!  If no one is buying the goods and services of a company, then a tax cut AIN'T gonna help anyone but the company getting the cut...You have noticed that PRIVATE COMPANIES are laying off employees and NOT HIRING?

You guys are totally misguided and ill-informed.

So I take that to mean a job is a job regardless of time on the job? Does this plan make the PRIVATE CONTRACTORS temp agencies? The spending will be great for how long? In other words, are we putting a band-aid on a shotgun wound so that the dems can get their pork?

Every day more and more economists are coming out against this porkulus bill. Do some research on what the Congressional Budget Office says about the "stimulus". They have a pretty good track record on these things and are not like us peons that are "totally misguided and ill-informed".

[LTC]

A job is a job...temporary or not. This bill is NOT intended to be permanent. It is intended to create jobs which will help to create more jobs.  There are LOTS of Temp agencies who are keeping people employed through temporary work which leads to permanent work. Construction companies are normally temporary employers...always have been...always will be. They have very vfew permanent employees...Construction workers are normally hired for the duration of a job and construction jobs normally are only good until the job is complete...then that contractor has to bid on other jobs...and will hire other employees....you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when your disparage a temp job.

[NCVol]

Name ONE provision in that 700 page, $trillion dollar POS, a bill that my effing great-grandkids will still be paying for when their kids retire, that will create a SINGLE private-sector job this year.

ONE.

Wall Street (you know, the people who can ACTUALLY stimulate the economy) has voted:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1a2106a6-f773-11dd-81f7-000077b07658.html

1) It's a great thing that republicans are paying attention to deficits and debt again.  Two trillion under Reagan and five trillion under Bush was not an issue, but the tipping point as been reached I see. 

2) Every dollar spent affects economic activity.  You can say the best course is to let it all crash around us and then build from a stronger base, but that means a few MILLION more people unemployed and a lot of real pain with Washington standing idly by. But it's ignorant to pretend that this amount of new spending has no effect on jobs.  Bush didn't choose to ignore the bad economy when he passed either of his TWO stimulus packages, or when he passed tax cuts that exploded the deficit and debt, and he didn't do it when the banks were collapsing either.  Now that things are MUCH WORSE than before, and we're in a crisis with job losses ACCELERATING, a year into the recession, and poor people are the primary beneficiary, it's an issue of guiding principles.  Got it. 

3) Wall Street doesn't stimulate the economy.  It's become a gambling organization with winning odds, but pushing a piece of paper from one person to the next slightly higher in value does not create wealth or jobs. What Geithner was doing yesterday was proposing a way to clean up Wall Street without them taking the WORLD economy and millions of people down with them. 

4) The reason for the selloff was Tim didn't promise the banks a bailout with no bad consequences for the POS owners and executives that ran their companies into catastrophic failure.  That's what they were hoping for, and they didn't see that type plan.  Your own link points to the selloff for the motherf***** financials as the cause for the decline.  In the crony capitalist system that we have, they clearly expected a plan that would relieve them of any consequence for risk. 

5) When does it finally dawn on people that the corporate welfare going to Wall Street, what's already been given or loaned to them, is an order of many times greater than the entire bill that passed this week?  Multiple TRILLIONS already, with much more to come. 

[Sasquatch]

A job is a job...temporary or not. This bill is NOT intended to be permanent. It is intended to create jobs which will help to create more jobs.  There are LOTS of Temp agencies who are keeping people employed through temporary work which leads to permanent work. Construction companies are normally temporary employers...always have been...always will be. They have very vfew permanent employees...Construction workers are normally hired for the duration of a job and construction jobs normally are only good until the job is complete...then that contractor has to bid on other jobs...and will hire other employees....you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when your disparage a temp job.

First, please let me know where I disparaged a temp job.

Again, I want to understand your logic so let's go through the exercise again:

1 The private contractor who is chosen to create the frisbee golf course hires his crew for this project.

2. The employees of this contractor and the contractor spend all kinds of money for the term of this project. Things look good in Frisbee Golf Course town.

3. Because of the money from this job, the employees go out and buy a new home and new clothes allowing merchants of the town where the frisbee golf course is built to receive the private contractor's employee's money.

4. Everyone is happy until the project is completed a few weeks/months down the road. Earlier questions you did not answer was "does the stimulus have other jobs for this crew?" and "how many of these jobs will go to illegals and those with work visas who send their earnings south of the border?".

5. After completion, spending dries up, the contractor lays off, and the new home is foreclosed upon. Congress comes in and implements another round of pork spending.

6. After all is said and done, we have to look at how many jobs and how much revenue the frisbee golf course generates. Maybe this is where I get confused. Maybe frisbee golf courses do generate a lot of revenue and produce lots of jobs. You will have to let this totally misguided and ill-informed guy know. I do know one thing: there shouldn't be any sexually transmitted diseases in this town by this point because of all the money spent on STD education (sorry for the digression).

Again, thanks for your help!

"Never let a serious crisis go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things you couldn't do before."

White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel



 

[The One Man Gang]

Government contracts DO NOT COUNT, since, by definition, the companies and employees involved are working FOR THE GOVERNMENT.

One more time: show us ONE private-sector job this POS will generate.

[Just Win]

Government contracts DO NOT COUNT, since, by definition, the companies and employees involved are working FOR THE GOVERNMENT.

One more time: show us ONE private-sector job this POS will generate.

what is going on at gm with  the 500,000 non-union white collar lay offs that are part of the auto bailout money conditions of barry/pelosi/reid? do those jobs count? if so, barry is in the hole for -500,000. look out florida, another wave of yankees are headed your way looking for work.

[LTC]

omg, you are delusional. But then we already knew that.

sasquatch...once people begin working again...they begin spending again ...then that helps create demand...which helps to create jobs to meet that demand...more jobs means people start buying more...maybe buying a house, for example...or..HEY, WAIT!!  MAYBE BUILDING A HOUSE! Damn...more construction work for the private contractor. Businesses begin to expand to meet demand...maybe OH NO!! BUILDING NEW FACILITIES!!!  Damn...even more construction work for the private contractor.



 

[Sasquatch]

omg, you are delusional. But then we already knew that.

sasquatch...once people begin working again...they begin spending again ...then that helps create demand...which helps to create jobs to meet that demand...more jobs means people start buying more...maybe buying a house, for example...or..HEY, WAIT!!  MAYBE BUILDING A HOUSE! Damn...more construction work for the private contractor. Businesses begin to expand to meet demand...maybe OH NO!! BUILDING NEW FACILITIES!!!  Damn...even more construction work for the private contractor.

Since the only jobs you are mentioning are construction jobs, I take that to mean that these are the bulk of the jobs in the porkulus?

If this is the case, will Betty the bank teller suddenly become Betty the bricklayer? I know...I know...spending begats spending and once these construction jobs begin, there will be hundreds of thousands of bank teller jobs open up. And hey, when the fed nationalizes the banks it will be a government job!

[plumbervol]

OMG

Here is how it works, government contract awarded to build needed infrastructure improvements be it engineering or actual hands on building. Contractor hires people and pays wages. Wages pay for groceries, cars, house payments and other durable goods. Demand for durable goods creates need for production of these items so the producers, sales folks, service people that are all private sector have a JOB. Contractor also needs equipment to improve infrastructure and product to improve infrastructure be it concrete, wire, plastics, etc. Contractor buys equipment and product from the private sector and this gives jobs once again to salesmen, truck drivers, engineers, prodction workers, longshoremen etc. Yes OMG even fast food and restaurants will recieve an added jolt as all those folks go out and eat as they work.. Hell I bet old food brokers even feel the domino effect.

When you consider that since the days of Reagan that we have neglected our infrastructure and traded tax revenue that pay our damn bills in exchange for a couple thousand dollars in chump change that folks spent on booze, cocaine, Golf and strip joints it is aboput damn time we grow up and act responsably to pay our damn billls instead of acting like brats and deadbeats. I read once that for every dollar spent in federal money for direct jobs, 3 dollars were generated in the private sector spending..... as it snowballed through the economy...