Why only Christians, only "true" Christians, go to heaven.

[Dementia_Madness]

I have heard many people say they do not understand or believe that only Christians go to Heaven. I have come to understand that the true problem is not with why only Christians go to heaven, but the understanding of why Christians do not go to hell.

We need to understand that salvation does not come from being a Christian. In fact it is just the opposite, being a Christian truly comes from being saved. The problem is we all deserve hell, yes, all of us, even your cute little "innocent" child. One problem most people fail to understand is the Bible tells us that all sinners will be punished, and only those who are perfect, or sinless, having not one spot or blemish, can go to heaven. In other words, every man woman and child who was ever born, deserves hell, everyone except one, Jesus Christ.

Truth is, we become saved first, and then we become Christians.

The reason most people cannot grasp why only Christians are saved is their inability to understand that before one is a Christian they have to be saved, period. There are many people who claim to be Christian, who think they are Christian, who actually are not. They think, "I will become a Christian, or I will choose Christianity, Then I will be saved." This so far from the truth, and so far from scripture, yet it is exactly why the "Christians" who think this are always the ones who will tell you, the Bible is only meant to be read as metaphors, or analogies, and not as 100% absolute truth or fact. You do not choose to be Christian, you do not get out of One line going to hell, and hop over in another going to heaven.

Picture this, there is a bus, we are all on it, and the bus is going to hell, why we are on this bus we can cover later, but we are all on this bus and rightly so. Becoming a Christian first we must understand that we are headed in the wrong direction, we must accept that we are going where we are based on our own choices, and merit, and then understand there is a way off, but not by our own means, and not by our own choices alone. Christ and God chose to let us get off, before we even got on the bus. In other words, we were offered salvation in truth before we were even born, and we were all offered this same salvation. So, there is NO discrimination between us, we are all born with the same standards upon our shoulders, we are all born with the fact that if we sin we will die, and we will be punished for that sin. At the same time we are also offered salvation, all of us Jew and Gentile, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist etc. etc. All of us must meet the same standards to be allowed into the presence of God.

Another problem is, many people do not have a true concept of what God's standards are, or why God's standards are such. The nature of God himself is at odds with sin. Not just big sins, as we might think of them, rape and murder, but little sins, as we might believe them to be, lies and stealing. One way to understand this is to understand the God is HOLY, which means pure in substance. There is a mistaken belief among some people who think they are Christians, and maybe even some Christians as to God and how he exists and the creation of evil. New age thinking tells us that god is in everything, this is a myth, it's made up. In this mind view god created everything out of himself, inside himself, and he is part of everything, even evil. In this belief there is god in everything even the corrupted.

The bible explains that God actually created everything outside himself, Think of it this way, God is omnipotent, meaning he is all powerful, and not limited to what we understand or see around us, he is beyond it. Most deists believe that God is unknowable, they accept the belief that God created everything, but they look at it more like a person playing pool, he built the table, he made the balls and placed them on the table, he struck the cue, and then come what may. Some Christians see God this way, based on their own imagination rather than what the Bible tells us. They believe God created everything and then turned his back, this is their explanation of tragedy and sorrow and sin and evil.

Why would God let my child die? This is a question that has been asked a million times since creation, and the answer for many is hard to come by. To first understand this, we must understand the nature of God and the truth of who he is. The deist believe that God turned his back on creation, and therefor though he cares about us he can not or will not interfere with what goes on down here. The Bible tells us just the opposite is true. In fact it tells us that if we have faith anything, through God, is possible. This however opens up a new can of worms for people, because then we understand that God can and sometimes does intervene or interfere but chooses not to, this in fact is more "mean" in some peoples minds than if he interfered not at all and saved none, in other words, "If he doesn't help me he shouldn't help anyone," that statement in itself, should,  if we are honest, point out the wrongness of that belief to begin with. We often ask, "why not me?" Instead we should ask, "why me?" instead of why God didn't save my child, we need to ask why God should save my child. This is the nature that God is leading us to, the nature that we can truly only have if we become saved first and then become a Christian, and even some saved Christians will not reach that nature before their death.

We often judge God, based on our limited knowledge and limited understanding of not only God, but of the universe and world around us, history, reality, and the future. If we open our bibles we learn one necessary truth, God already knows the future, he has already planned and moved to make sure that no matter what we do, no matter what we mess up, in the end his plan will succeed. This does not mean that God is up there saying "oh no he just jumped in front of a bus, I have to change my plan. God was not shocked before Adam and Eve ate the bad fruit, he didn't say "oh no they have ruined everything." Because God is omnipotent, and omnipresent, he knew what would happen before he made anything, and he built that into his final design, examples of this are all through the Bible.

Deist say that we cannot understand God, this is because they like so many reject the truthfulness of the Bible. However like I stated the examples of how God created the Universe and then instead of reacting to our every mistake, built them into his true plan are all through the Bible. One good example is Moses, had pharaoh not tried to kill him, he would not have been sent down the river in a basket and raised in the home of pharaoh, giving him the education he would need, and the ability to stand before pharaoh and bring God's word to him. yes many children died, but in the end their deaths served a purpose, Moses was raised up, Israelis was freed, pharaoh meant the murders for evil, God used them for Good. We can actually go back to the act that actually brought the Jews to Egypt to begin with, Joseph was almost murdered and then sold to traveling slave traders. This was an evil act, yet God used it to save his people later when there was a drought, and it says "you meant it for evil, God used it for good."

Now let's look ahead in scripture to the most vile and wrong act mankind has ever done, they took the most perfect, only innocent human, their true ruler, their king, and God made flesh himself, and beat him, mocked him, spit on him, lied about him, and murdered him. This was truly an act of evil, yet God used this act, changed it and made it an act that would bring about salvation for all mankind, if they accepted it. Many people try to maintain that the cross was plan B, however if we have a true understanding of God, we can learn that it was in fact plan A all along.

I know that there are people that cannot get past the "miracles" or the apparent discrepancies between the Bible and the science books. I have heard the argument that the Bible was written by men so many times, by people who are so very willing to accept the science books written by men without any questioning or doubts of those. In the end it's not the act that "men" wrote the Bible, or those science books, that bothers people, it is who those men are/were and what they believed/believe and wanted/want us to believe.

Some people might wonder how God could let all the terrible things happen that happen, or happened, we must understand that they are truly terrible only from our limited perspective. Some people also ask how god could create evil or let it exist anyway. The fact is, that if were to be created with free will, evil and sin are the only results of that freedom, and if God wanted us to be able to freely come to him, we had to be allowed to fall to begin with to be able to be lifted up, and saved. Sin itself is not a creation, it is actually an absence of something, an absence of Gods will, just like darkness doesn't come from something, it is only the absence of light, or a hole itself is not a thing, it is simply the absence of the matter that surrounds it.

Finally we come to an understanding of God's nature that is necessary for us to understand how salvation works. The bible describes the kingdom of God as something that not even a single particle of evil or sin can exist in. To understand that we must understand that if we are sinful, if we are still tainted by our sin debt and nature, if we were to even approach the Holy nature of God that sin nature would be destroyed. If that nature is still the basis of who we are, we in turn will be destroyed. In other words we have to change, our nature has to change, in order for us to even be allowed into the Holy place where God exists.

This is what salvation does, and this is what the Holy spirit does, if this spirit was to enter us before we are made fit for it, we would be destroyed by it. The story of the new wine put into old wineskin's explains it to us in human terms, those skins must be prepared before the spirit can dwell in it, and if they are not the skins will burst. This does not mean we will be instantaneously perfected, it simply means we give up our nature, which resists Gods work in us, and we die to ourselves allowing God to build a new life in us. This is the gift of salvation, that our old nature is changed, given the very nature of Christ, and our old nature is destroyed. If that transaction does not take place, if that does not happen, we cannot be changed, and we cannot enter heaven or approach God.

Oprah Winfrey once asked a question that was something like "If you get to the same place in the end, does it matter if what brought you there you called Jesus or something else?" That is a trick question, because the answer truly depends on if that other thing, or belief can bring you to where Jesus can bring you to begin with. Truth is no other faith system makes this claim, not even Judaisms or Islam. False Christian beliefs, Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons, are the same, in the end they do not make the claims that "true" Christianity makes, so they cannot bring you to the same place because each and everyone of them not only reject the entire text of the entire bible, but they add to it or take away from it to make it fit their views. You cannot accidentally become saved and you cannot sneak into the back door to heaven, there is none. There is only one way, and the bible tells us that way.

The change must come first, you must reject the self, only then will Christ accept YOU and you will be changed. Then comes salvation, then comes Christianity, and then well, you will find out. There is so much more to be said but I think my brain is going to explode....I hope this helps in some ways.

[roustabout]

Good post Mondo. Sadly I fear it is wasted on this lot. If it were about Kiffin's antics, or Bruce's girlfriend, perhaps it might garner more attention. Plus it is more than a paragraph and includes no smilies.

I read through the entire post. It brings up some other issues, but I haven't time right now. I've participating at godandscience.org/discussions
I think you'd like it.

[Dementia_Madness]

I heard the story of a man who was envangelizing on a mission trip in a village on some other contenant, perhaps it was China, I do not recall now. Anyway, I think this is how it went, he preached in a church for five years with NO ONE there to listen. For five years he wrote his sermons, stood at the alter and preached nof salvation and Christ, and no one was there except a handful now and then who worked with him. However after five years ONE man was saved and brought to Christ. Many would say that he was wasting his time and even though no one was there he was there preaching EVERY SUNDAY and did not miss a day. Eventually a new church was made and the Christian community grew, but it was something like 20 years later before the true fruits of his labors began to grow.

I do not know if I remember the exact story correctly, but I do know I got the meaning of it down.

As Christians we must proclaim the word, even and especially when we do not think anyone is listeneing.

Even if there are little or no responces....it is not the point, the point is we are faithful to God's command to share the gospel.

[roustabout]

I would say the guy had good intentions, but bad tactics. Preaching "in" the church is to edify the body of Christ. I'd say that is a good lesson that God worked even with the wrong tactics employeed. The harvest is in the field, not in the pews. 

Wesley, Spurgeon, and the great ones, preached in the open air. I say you haven't really preached till someone has either cussed you or thrown something at you.

[Dementia_Madness]

Actaully I think I am getting two different stories mixed up....I think one was about a street evangelist who worked five years before seeing one person come to christ, and the other about a minister who was offered a job at a church in europe and no one showed up his first night to preach so he preached anyway and slowly he built a  congregation. Any way, the final point is that we are to preach the word reguardles of if it is to one or one thousand, and we are not to assume that just because we do not directly see the outcome of God's work does not mean God is not working, our efforts may indeed change lives we are totally unaware of.

[roustabout]

A big problem today is results based evangelism. People want those church growth numbers.

I can take a group of elementary age church kids, and ask, "do you love God?"
All hands go up.
"Do you want to serve him?"
All hands go up.
"Who would like Jesus to come into their heart?"
All hands go up.

This is about the depth of many decisions today. So, it is no wonder why we see so many young adults fall away from the faith. And no doubt why we see so much lukewarmness in the church today.

A decision to trust Christ is a deep decision. And yes, I believe God can bring a child of any age into His Kingdom. But the results are His. We should never manipulate anyone, regardless of age, into a false sense of salvation, because they raised their hand at VBS one year, repeated some words after the priest, or followed some sacraments of the church.