Family Guy / Atheists

[Dementia_Madness]

  I THINK IT'S A VIKING SAYING....

Panthro

Actually there is great logic in God and our faith, if there is a creation, there must be a creator, if there is design in creation there must be a designer. Belief in God is actually more rational than not believeing in him, it is more logical to believe in something there is evidence for, then to believe in nothing becasue there is no evidence for it.

[Sovereign]

Mind, your line about how to annoy a liberal reminded me of when all of the atheists were attacking me yesterday.  They insisted that they were the sane ones because they view the world logically.  This is where I struggled in convincing them that God does exist without being able to use scientific facts. 
Sure there are tons of evidences to prove the existence of God, but for someone who is dead-set on not believing, it's as hard to prove as it is that a tree makes noise when it falls in an empty forest. 
I understand what you mean about the lukewarm.  I was a lukewarm myself for quite a while.  I can understand a lukewarm, or even a Jew or even a Hindu for that matter.  These people all at least recognize that there is a god, and that life should be lived for Him, instead of just living for yourself.  They may not do it well, but still they know what is up, and how they should be living.  An atheist is just "mind-bottling" (Ricky Bobby) to me.  Their argument is that it isn't logical to believe in God.  I think that it's illogical to believe that there is no god or divine power. 

what you should inform your more "intellectual" individuals is this- even from logistical standpoint everyone should believe in God because suppose we take their way..... great  your wrong. dose it really matter after you die? do think anyone will care at that point? at that point there is no existence. but suppose your the one who is correct...etc.....

the end result is the same no matter what route you take if the atheists are correct. but even if the smallest of chances exists for your argument then the end result is so dramatically different that they would be fools to not believe. 

It is man's pride that ultimately gets in the way because even logic fails them.

[roustabout]

Sovereign,

There are more people martyred for the faith today than at any time in history. Now, we may not be experiencing that directly on our soil, but our country has turned a blind eye to it.

We may not be at the end of the spear, but I am sure the devil loves apathy as much as any form of oppression.

Oh, and Happy Atheist Day to all. (April 1.)
Psalm 14:1
Only a FOOL says in their heart, there is no God.

[Dementia_Madness]

Sovereign,

There are more people martyred for the faith today than at any time in history. Now, we may not be experiencing that directly on our soil, but our country has turned a blind eye to it.

We may not be at the end of the spear, but I am sure the devil loves apathy as much as any form of oppression.

Oh, and Happy Atheist Day to all. (April 1.)
Psalm 14:1
Only a FOOL says in their heart, there is no God.

http://www.persecution.com/

[Sovereign]

Sovereign,

we may not be experiencing that directly on our soil

Well that could be changing very soon for better or worse.

[plumbervol]

PV,
The founding fathers would give you a good smack.

I am sure they would for lots of reasons other than my remarks for the need for tolerance for the non believers. You see in their day they would want to slap me because I am Roman Catholic. Maryland was founded with a charter that  conferred on them equality in religious rights and civil freedom. It was founded by a Lord Baltimore who appointed his brother, Leonard Calvert, governor of the province, who, with about two hundred planters, mostly Roman Catholics, left England and established the colony. Religous tolerance was not a strong suit among our early founding fathers. Thus the need for Maryland where a colony and later a state existed that allowed religous tolerance

I also find slavery to be a crime against nature and they seemed all right with this practice. They also had no room for women as folks who should make decisions.

What the founding fathers thought was irrelevant, the instrument they set into motion and the movement that birthed a great nation that allows religous tolerance, the women's vote and later freed the slaves is what is important.

[roustabout]

What the founding fathers thought was irrelevant

There you have it. Need I say anymore.

If you really think this is about 'tolerence' then you are more blind than I suspected.

[Dementia_Madness]

Actually, many of the founding fathers wrote extensively against slavery... Some saw the seperation from Britain as a necesity if the practice of slavery was to be ended in the colonies since every attempt among the Colonies to end slavery (there were attempts to do this even then)  had been thwarted or reversed by the British Crown.. In fact, in the years following America's separation from Great Britain, many of the Founding Fathers who had owned slaves released them (e.g., John Dickinson, Ceasar Rodney, William Livingston, George Washington, George Wythe, John Randolph, and others). It is true that not all of the Founders from the South opposed slavery. According to the testimony of Thomas Jefferson, John Rutledge, and James Madison, those from North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia favored slavery. Despite the support in those states for slavery, the clear majority of the Founders was opposed to this evil--and their support went beyond words.

Benjamin Franklin and Benjamin Rush founded America's first antislavery society, John Jay was president of a similar society in New York. When William Livingston heard of the New York society, he, as Governor of New Jersey, wrote them, offering:

I would most ardently wish to become a member of it [the society in New York] and... I can safely promise them that neither my tongue, nor my pen, nor purse shall be wanting to promote the abolition of what to me appears so inconsistent with humanity and Christianity... May the great and the equal Father of the human race, who has expressly declared His abhorrence of oppression, and that He is no respecter of persons, succeed a design so laudably calculated to undo the heavy burdens, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke.

Other prominent Founding Fathers who were members of societies for ending slavery included Richard Bassett, James Madison, James Monroe, Bushrod Washington, Charles Carroll, William Few, John Marshall, Richard Stockton, Zephaniah Swift, and many more.

Based in part on the efforts of these Founders, Pennsylvania and Massachusetts abolished slavery in 1780; Connecticut and Rhode Island did so in 1784; New Hampshire in 1792; Vermont in 1793; New York in 1799; and New Jersey in 1804.

“I can only say that there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do to see a plan adopted for the abolition of it [slavery].”
      -George Washington

"[M]y opinion against it [slavery] has always been known... [N]ever in my life did I own a slave."
      -John Adams

"[W]hy keep alive the question of slavery? It is admitted by all to be a great evil."
     -Charles Carroll

"As Congress is now to legislate for our extensive territory lately acquired, I pray to Heaven that they ...[c]urse not the inhabitants of those regions, and of the United States in general, with a permission to introduce bondage [slavery]."
      -John Dickinson

"That men should pray and fight for their own freedom and yet keep others in slavery is certainly acting a very inconsistent as well as unjust and perhaps impious part."
      -John Jay

"Christianity, by introducing into Europe the truest principles of humanity, universal benevolence, and brotherly love, had happily abolished civil slavery. Let us who profess the same religion practice its precepts... by agreeing to this duty."
     -Richard Henry Lee

"t ought to be considered that national crimes can only be and frequently are punished in this world by national punishments; and that the continuance of the slave trade, and thus giving it a national sanction and encouragement, ought to be considered as justly exposing us to the displeasure and vengeance of Him who is equally Lord of all and who views with equal eye the poor African slave and his American master."
     -Luther Martin

"Domestic slavery is repugnant to the principles of Christianity... It is rebellion against the authority of a common Father. It is a practical denial of the extent and efficacy of the death of a common Savior. It is an usurpation of the prerogative of the great Sovereign of the universe who has solemnly claimed an exclusive property in the souls of men."
     -Benjamin Rush

"Slavery, or an absolute and unlimited power in the master over life and fortune of the slave, is unauthorized by the common law... The reasons which we sometimes see assigned for the origin and the continuance of slavery appear, when examined to the bottom, to be built upon a false foundation. In the enjoyment of their persons and of their property, the common law protects all."
     -James Wilson

"It is certainly unlawful to make inroads upon others...and take away their liberty by no better right than superior force."
     -John Witherspoon

http://christiananswers.net/q-wall/wal-g003.html

[Sovereign]

PV- you is busted............ great post DM I think that enlightened a lot a individuals who thought all the FF where slave supporters.

If you really believe that what the founding fathers thought was irrelevant then using that same line of thought then you must also think what the apostles thought was irrelevant...

[plumbervol]

PV- you is busted............ great post DM I think that enlightened a lot a individuals who thought all the FF where slave supporters.

If you really believe that what the founding fathers thought was irrelevant then using that same line of thought then you must also think what the apostles thought was irrelevant...

I knew that not all FF were slave supporters, but it was not enough of a stumbling point to fight for when we were founded.

The founding fathers were a far cry from apostles....


The bottom line is that the reality of America changed from the time we were founded till now. Andrew Jackson and the next wave of Patriots reflected the new reality of the Great Experiment. The next wave of "Patriots" will probably be Hispanic and they will change the reality of America...

I remember driving down Texas Avenue Dec 12th and watching a tent being erected in a field on the right side of the road close to where Sarge use to have his BBQ pit. Everybody wanted to know what was going on and what was all of the strange stuff being placed there. The following Monday everybody was asking a thousand questions. You see the 12th was the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe and people did not understand or even know what the hell it all meant. The temporary shrine, the flowers candles food etc in the middle of a field on the side of the road 2 blocks from Lonsdale.....

[roustabout]

You must also realize that there was about 100 years of history between our founding fathers and the civil war.

When the colonies were founded, it wasn't unusual to have white slaves. Endentured servitude was common and was a way a lot of people kept from starving. People could essentially sell themselves into servitude, and work to have their food and shelter needs provided. After so many years the person was free to go, or they could renew their servitude.

The atrocities that came arose out of the vast agricultural growth the States experienced. The rest is so called history.

It's real easy to sit here in the 21st century and make judgments, but it is far from realistic.
The founding fathers were some amazing men, like none other in history. And one thing they have overwhelmingly in common is their Christianity, excluding less than a handful of men, most notably Thomas Paine. By today's standards these men were overtly Christian, and it greatly influenced their politics. Education was Christian. There was no alternative. Harvard and Yale were established as schools to train ministers. Days of prayer and fasting were common and were often issued by our politicians.
People not of faith or different faiths were welcome to live in the land, knowing full well that it was a Christian land. Christianity wasn't a religion, it was the religion. But it was not to be coerced or enforced in any way by the state. And this was to protect the faith, not the people of the government. Voting rights, property rights, etc. were not determined by religious affiliation. Morality WAS regulated.

But what you have today is a revisionists view. Obviously one PV shares.