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Author Topic: Baptism of a premature baby that is not going to make it...for what?  (Read 232 times)
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Whine and Biscuit King
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« on: June 25, 2009, 08:26:12 PM »

Seriously, I'd like to hear the explanation for the need in this exercise.  If they don't get baptised, what happens?  If they do, what happens?  Is this
simply a "feel good" ritual for the family?
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roustabout
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« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2009, 08:52:03 AM »

God is sovereign and beyond the traditions of men.

Baptism will not save anyone. I'm sure the families heart motives were right, and in keeping with the traditions of the RCC. The family is likely keeping the traditions and doing their best to honor their faith. Hopefully without the thought that ritualistic traditions can manipulate the will of God or the eternal destiny of a child.

We are saved by grace alone, and baptized into one body by one spirit. (1 cor 12:13) There is no scriptural basis for baptizing infants, much less still born infants. The great commission Matt 28:19 is a complete command. "Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost." Notice the first instruction is to "make disciples." If we were able to save people by simply dunking them under water then evangelism could simply be a pool party.

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If they don't get baptised, what happens?
Nothing, God is in control. The parents decision to perform a ritual has no bearing on the soul of a child and the sovereign will of God.

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If they do, what happens? 
The child gets wet.

The moment the thief on the cross repented and placed his trust in Christ alone, He was baptized by one spirit into one body. This child is blameless before the Lord because it has not reached an age of awareness where it will eat from its own tree of good and evil and thus divide itself from God, and become lost. God's grace is sufficient.
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Grace is the biggest no brainer in the history of the world.

"FWIW, my own opinion is that if the baby is capable of surviving outside the womb, an abortion should not be allowed." FL on 3/4/2004
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Whine and Biscuit King
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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2009, 10:39:04 PM »

That's pretty much how I saw it, Rusty...style over substance.  Isn't that your beef with the RC nation anyway?  A bunch of hoo-doo rituals that have nothing to do with anything?
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Panthro
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2009, 08:49:37 AM »

I agree.  Sure, baptism is a special thing, but only for those who understand what exactly they're going through.  It's like communion every Sunday.  If you consider what's really happening, then it can truly benefit you as you leave the church and enter the world.  If you go up there just because you want to get out of your seat, then it was a waste of time for you.  Baptism can be the same way. 
I don't have a problem with this scenario though.  If it makes a family feel more comfortable, then so be it.  Obviously the kid won't get anything out of it, but as a parent (I hope to be someday) I feel that my #1 job, besides taking care of them, is to teach them about Christ.  If this family feels that same responsibility, maybe they would just really like to do whatever THEY can to inject the Lord into their baby's short life. 
I don't see the need for this, but I don't have a problem with it either. 
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plumbervol
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2009, 11:21:54 PM »

My wife and myself lost a premie before our last son was born(He is now 18) His birth and death date is June 30th. He would be 20 on Tuesday, he is buried at Calvary Cemetary on Dandridge Ave(RC graveyard close to his Great Great Grandads and GGmoms and various Great++++ Uncles aunts and cousins. When he died I was curious if he needed to be Baptised, the Current Pastor of Holy Ghost and the deceased Pastor who also baptised me told me that it was no longer the general practice to baptise infants a few days old or less. The Church was fine with this as the first Bishop of Knoxville said the burial service along with the two mentioned priests.

Why baptise 1-2 week old infants in the first place as they did in the past? Well in fact some still do and it varies from parish, diocese sect and even religion. But the origin of baby baptism coincides with the belief in Original Sin. In other words all humans are tainted with sin we are born with by just being human!! Original sin is humanity's state of sin resulting from the Fall of Man.

Those who uphold the doctrine look to the teaching of Paul the Apostle in Romans 5:12-21 and 1 Corinthians 15:22 for its scriptural base, and see it as implied in Old Testament passages Psalm 51:5 and Psalm 58:3. But Judaism does not accept the concept.

Roman Catholic teaching regards original sin as the lack of holiness. This is the  general condition of sinfulness into which human beings are born, distinct from the actual sins that a person commits.

This concept has been around since the time of St Paul and has roots in the earliest days of the church. The concept became a stronger tenet in the early church as Irenaeus, the Bishop of Lyon  struggled against Gnosticism. Then later Augustine jumped in teaching that original sin was physically transmitted from parent to child through lust  that goes with having sex. Later writers and Church doctors said that Original Sin was what seperated us from animals when it came to procreation. Being cleansed of sin makes us human. The idea of original sin was not a Jewish idea, but teaching was easy to jews because of their belief life did not begin until birth and in fact the newborn child is not considered fully viable until it has survived thirty days following birth, as is stated in the Talmud. Then the child may be presented to the rabbi and jewish center/temple.
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That Which Doesn't Break Me, Only Makes Me Stronger
Reflections on 12 years of Catholic Education.

It is a bit embarrassing to have been concerned with the human problem all one's life and find at the end that one has no more to offer by way of advice than "try to be a little kinder".
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