Rep. John Murtha died

[NCVol]

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/rep-john-murtha-iraq-293937.html

HARRISBURG, Pa. — U.S. Rep. John Murtha, an influential critic of the Iraq War whose congressional career was shadowed by questions about his ethics, died Monday. He was 77.

The Pennsylvania Democrat had been suffering complications from gallbladder surgery. He died at Virginia Hospital Center in Arlington, Va., spokesman Matthew Mazonkey said.

[onemangang]

I hope the deceased members of K/3/1 Marines give him a proper reception.

[Jeremy Roenick]

Condolences to the family.  May God comfort them.

My respects to Rep. Murtha for his service to his country.

My relief that we have another traitor out of office.  Another seat up for Conservative grabs.

[Flummoxed Lummox]

Condolences to the family.  May God comfort them.

My respects to Rep. Murtha for his service to his country.

My relief that we have another traitor out of office.  Another seat up for Conservative grabs.

What a despicable thing to say about a man who served his country honorably. You and the rest of your chickenhawk neocon buddies (you too OMG) aren't worthy to be in the same room as this man. 

Murtha was an Eagle Scout as a boy. He voluntarily joined the Marines. Ten years after he was honorably discharged he volunteered again to serve in the Vietnam War, where he received the Bronze Star, two Purple Hearts and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallant. When he retired after 25 years of service to his country he received the Navy Distinguished Service Medal. So spare me the "traitor" you asshole.

How dare you internet warriors criticize a true American hero because he didn't agree with your inane war in Iraq (note: neither does the majority of the free world agree with you). You people have no shame. You're an embarrassment.

[Jeremy Roenick]

And after he slandered the Marines at Haditha, I lost what little respect I had left for the man.

May he rest in peace.



Take a poll among Marines AV and I'll bet you'll find a vast majority are raising a toast tonight vs. shedding any tears.

[Flummoxed Lummox]

Take a poll among Marines AV and I'll bet you'll find a vast majority are raising a toast tonight vs. shedding any tears.

Take a poll among the families of the 24 men, women, and children who were gunned down at Haditha (and at least 15 of them were innocent civilians) and I'll bet you'll find a vast majority don't have a favorable opinion of the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines.

[Jeremy Roenick]

Still living in the erroneous past eh AV?

After a complete investigation, facts revealed that the Haditha incident was part of a planned ambush by insurgents that used civilians as human shields, and that despite the claims of Rep. Murtha, this was not murder but the tragic result of a firefight in which U.S. Marines were honorably defending themselves.

So Murtha used the Marines in question to further his political ends, before an investigation even took place.  Since, the charges have been dropped against all the Marines involved, one was found not guilty and Murtha looked like a complete for what he did.

This clown called these soldiers "cold blooded murderers" before he even had all the facts.  Going off half-cocked without all the facts...  That's a liberal trademark isn't it AV???  I mean I see a lot of similarities between Murtha's actions and your limp wristed attempt to defend him here.  You don't even know what you're talking about...

There is nothing at all honorable about Rep. Murtha.

[ben stein fan]

His death makes passing health care even harder.

[Sasquatch]

This clown called these soldiers "cold blooded murderers" before he even had all the facts.  Going off half-cocked without all the facts...  That's a liberal trademark isn't it AV???  I mean I see a lot of similarities between Murtha's actions and your limp wristed attempt to defend him here.  You don't even know what you're talking about...

My thoughts exactly. Murtha's remarks were disgusting.

I really don't understand why FL wouldn't know the history of this event.

Take a poll among the families of the 24 men, women, and children who were gunned down at Haditha (and at least 15 of them were innocent civilians) and I'll bet you'll find a vast majority don't have a favorable opinion of the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines.

What a despicable thing to say about men who served their country honorably. You and the rest of your blame the military first buddies aren't worthy to be in the same room as these men.

Hey FL, do some research before you make ANOTHER post regarding something you know nothing about.

[Darth_Mondo]

Condolences to the family and friends...I am sorry for their loss, It is impossible to adequately express my sincere sympathy at this most difficult time.
 

on the brighter side

Dems now face losing another long held seat

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/09/john-murtha-barack-obama-democrats

His death came on a day that saw Barack Obama's poll ratings fall further. A Marist poll found that only 44% of voters surveyed approved of his job performance, down 2% on December. More alarming for Democratic strategists, 57% of independents disapprove of his performance.

Murtha's death will have a negligible impact on the arithmetic of the House, where the Democrats have an overwhelming majority, unlike in the Senate. But another defeat in the spring would add to the sense of panic among Democrats in the run-up to the Congressional mid-term elections in November.

Some libs will be sure to point out that even if the seat goes to a republican this doesn't change the "power" the dems have right now, and this is true, however it could be a harbinger of things to come in coming months congressional mid-terms.

[Jeremy Roenick]

Trust me DM, Obama feels the political rope tightening around his neck.  Losing seats to the Grim Reaper doesn't help his agenda at all.  The Dems are divided because America has spoken.  They said in one strong voice "we don't want socialized medicine" "we don't want cap and trade" "we don't want open borders" "we don't want more stimulus" and "we don't want more bailouts".

The house of cards is caving in because moderate democrats don't have a stomach to face the blood-letting they'll face if they follow Obama's agenda.  Murtha passing is another card in the deck folding.

[Flummoxed Lummox]

Still living in the erroneous past eh AV?

After a complete investigation, facts revealed that the Haditha incident was part of a planned ambush by insurgents that used civilians as human shields, and that despite the claims of Rep. Murtha, this was not murder but the tragic result of a firefight in which U.S. Marines were honorably defending themselves.

So Murtha used the Marines in question to further his political ends, before an investigation even took place.  Since, the charges have been dropped against all the Marines involved, one was found not guilty and Murtha looked like a complete for what he did.

This clown called these soldiers "cold blooded murderers" before he even had all the facts.  Going off half-cocked without all the facts...  That's a liberal trademark isn't it AV???  I mean I see a lot of similarities between Murtha's actions and your limp wristed attempt to defend him here.  You don't even know what you're talking about...

There is nothing at all honorable about Rep. Murtha.

"Since, the charges have been dropped against all the Marines involved"

Wrong. You're entitled to your opinion, but not to your own set of facts. Staff Sargeant Frank Wuterich's charges have not been dropped. He is awaiting trial on negligent homicide.

Fact: On November 19, 2005 24 Iraqi men, women, and children were gunned down, most of whom were noncombatant civilians.

Time Magazine's investigation found that the Marine's account of events was not accurate and that evidence supports accusations that the Marine's deliberately shot civilians, including unarmed women and children.

A nine year-old Iraqi who witnessed the incident said this, ""I couldn't see their faces very well - only their guns sticking in to the doorway. I watched them shoot my grandfather, first in the chest and then in the head. Then they killed my granny."

Fact: The Marines involved first claimed the victims died from shrapnel from a roadside bomb.That turned out to be a lie. Victims were shot in the head and at close range.

Fact: The Marine Corps paid $38,000 to the families of 15 of the dead civilians. Why? If they did nothing wrong, why in hades would they pay money to the victims' families?

Fact: On March 19, 2006, U.S. military officials confirmed that contrary to the initial report, U.S. Marines, not Iraqi insurgents, killed 15 civilians. Again, the Marines involved claimed the victims died from shrapnel, testimony that has since been shown to be false.

Fact: On June 2, 2006 a US military investigation concluded that "the 24 unarmed Iraqis—including children as young as two years old and women[—were killed by 12 members of Kilo Company in the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division."

Source: Wikipedia

You Bush myrmidons can sugarcoat this all you want. Jack Murtha was dead on with his comments and about what a disaster the war in Iraq is. Although the military, as a whole, acts with class, valor, and courage, in this particular incident a small group of vigilante thugs crossed the line. They murdered innocent civilians and you know it. They are a disgrace to the thousands of honorable men and women who serve our country well.

[Jeremy Roenick]

Fact: Rep Murtha called ALL of these Marines "cold blooded murderers" before an investigation was even started.

Fact: All but one Marine has been found innocent or the charges have been dropped.

Fact: What Rep Murtha said was wrecklessly irresponsible in an attempt to grandstand or get political gain from the bloodshed and war in Iraq.

[Flummoxed Lummox]

Fact: Rep Murtha called ALL of these Marines "cold blooded murderers" before an investigation was even started.

Did a few renegade Marines murder innocent citizens or not? There are 24 dead bodies; dozens of witnesses; several investigations; and contradictory testimony from the Marines themselves which certainly seem to indicate murders took place. What part of Murtha's statement was wrong?

Fact: All but one Marine has been found innocent or the charges have been dropped.

None of them have been "proven innocent." Charges have been dropped, for a variety of reasons. For example,

The judge ruled that Lt. Gen. James Mattis, who made the decision to press charges in the Haditha case, had improperly allowed an investigator, who would be a potential witness for the prosecution, to be present during discussions about whether to prosecute the case. "The appearance of unlawful command influence is as devastating as actual manipulation of a trial," the judge said.

That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of the Marine's innocence. Charges were dropped because rules weren't followed, not because no wrongdoing occurred.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/haditha/etc/update.html

Fact: What Rep Murtha said was wrecklessly irresponsible in an attempt to grandstand or get political gain from the bloodshed and war in Iraq.

That's not a fact. That's an opinion ... and a baseless opinion at that.


Here is what witnesses to the event said:

BAGHDAD, May 26 -- Witnesses to the slaying of 24 Iraqi civilians by U.S. Marines in the western town of Haditha say the Americans shot men, women and children at close range in retaliation for the death of a Marine lance corporal in a roadside bombing.

Aws Fahmi, a Haditha resident who said he watched and listened from his home as Marines went from house to house killing members of three families, recalled hearing his neighbor across the street, Younis Salim Khafif, plead in English for his life and the lives of his family members. "I heard Younis speaking to the Americans, saying: 'I am a friend. I am good,' " Fahmi said. "But they killed him, and his wife and daughters."
---
Then one of the Marines took charge and began shouting, said Fahmi, who was watching from his roof. Fahmi said he saw the Marine direct other Marines into the house closest to the blast, about 50 yards away.

It was the home of 76-year-old Abdul Hamid Hassan Ali. Although he had used a wheelchair since diabetes forced a leg amputation years ago, Ali was always one of the first on his block to go out every morning, scattering scraps for his chickens and hosing the dust of the arid western town from his driveway, neighbors said.

In the house with Ali and his 66-year-old wife, Khamisa Tuma Ali, were three of the middle-aged male members of their family, at least one daughter-in-law and four children -- 4-year-old Abdullah, 8-year-old Iman, 5-year-old Abdul Rahman and 2-month-old Asia.

Marines entered shooting, witnesses recalled. Most of the shots -- in Ali's house and two others -- were fired at such close range that they went through the bodies of the family members and plowed into walls or the floor, physicians at Haditha's hospital said.
---
The Marines moved to the house next door, Fahmi said.

Inside were 43-year-old Khafif, 41-year-old Aeda Yasin Ahmed, an 8-year-old son, five young daughters and a 1-year-old girl staying with the family, according to death certificates and neighbors.

The Marines shot them at close range and hurled grenades into the kitchen and bathroom, survivors and neighbors said later. Khafif's pleas could be heard across the neighborhood. Four of the girls died screaming. 
---
Moving to a third house in the row, Marines burst in on four brothers, Marwan, Qahtan, Chasib and Jamal Ahmed. Neighbors said the Marines killed them together.
---
The final victims of the day happened upon the scene inadvertently, witnesses said. Four male college students -- Khalid Ayada al-Zawi, Wajdi Ayada al-Zawi, Mohammed Battal Mahmoud and Akram Hamid Flayeh -- had left the Technical Institute in Saqlawiyah for the weekend to stay with one of their families on the street, said Fahmi, a friend of the young men.

A Haditha taxi driver, Ahmed Khidher, was bringing them home, Fahmi said.

According to Fahmi, the young men and their driver turned onto the street and saw the wrecked Humvee and the Marines. Khidher threw the car into reverse, trying to back away at full speed, Fahmi said, and the Marines opened fire from about 30 yards away, killing all the men inside the taxi.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/26/AR2006052602069.html

How ANYONE could defend the actions of these rogue Marines is beyond me. They were sent there, ostensibly, to liberate the Iraqis from a thug dictator, not to assassinate innocent civilians, the very people they were there to protect and liberate.

Again, I want to emphasize that 99.99% of our military follow the rules of combat and fulfill their duty with honor. But that doesn't mean that men and women, under the stress of combat, can't make heinous decisions, which is what happened at Haditha. Those soldiers who murdered innocent civilians should be in jail for the rest of their miserable lives. They are unfit to serve in our military and are a disgrace to our country.

And shame on any of you who defend what these few rogue Marines did to innocent people.

[Flummoxed Lummox]

After a complete investigation, facts revealed that the Haditha incident was part of a planned ambush by insurgents that used civilians as human shields, and that despite the claims of Rep. Murtha, this was not murder but the tragic result of a firefight in which U.S. Marines were honorably defending themselves.

This is pure fabrication. No such event occurred that even remotely resembles this piece of fiction.

[Flummoxed Lummox]

"This was a small number of Marines who fired directly on civilians and killed them," said Representative John Kline, a Minnesota Republican and former Marine who was briefed two weeks ago by Marine Corps officials.

Almost as damaging as the alleged massacre may be evidence that the unit's members and their superiors conspired to cover it up. "There's no doubt that the Marines allegedly involved in doing this--they lied about it," says Kline. "They certainly tried to cover it up."

The military's initial report stated that Terrazas and 15 civilians were killed in a roadside blast and that shortly afterward, the Marines came under attack and returned fire, killing eight insurgents. But as TIME reported in March on the basis of interviews with 28 individuals, including military officials, the families of the victims, human-rights investigators and local doctors, much of that account is dubious. Members of Congress, as well as military sources, have confirmed the critical details of TIME's initial report--that after gunning down the five fleeing the taxi, a few members of Kilo Company moved through four homes along nearby streets, killing 19 men, women and children. The Marines contend they took small-arms fire from at least one house, but as TIME's story detailed in March, only one of the 19 victims was found with a weapon.

A military source in Iraq says the men of Kilo Company stuck by their story throughout the initial inquiry, but what they told the first military investigator raised suspicions. One of the most glaring discrepancies involved the shooting of the four students and the taxi driver. "They had no weapons, they didn't show hostile intent, so why shoot them?" the military source says. Khaled Raseef, a spokesman for the victims' relatives, says U.S. military investigators visited the alleged massacre sites 15 times and "asked detailed questions, examined each bullet hole and burn mark and took all sorts of measurements. In the end, they brought all the survivors to the homes and did a mock-up of the Marines' movements." As the detectives found contradictions in the Marines' account, "the official story fell apart and people started rolling on each other," says the military source.

Marine Sergeant Eddie Wright, who lost both hands in a rocket-propelled-grenade attack in Fallujah two years ago, said it's natural "to want to kill the guys who killed your buddy." But, he adds, "you don't lash out at innocent people."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1198892,00.html

[Flummoxed Lummox]

Here is what John Murtha said about Haditha in 2005:

"It's much worse than reported in Time magazine. There was no fire fight. There was no IED that killed these innocent people. Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood. And that's what the report is going to tell."

John Murtha was dead on in his comments about the actions of Marines at Haditha. Everything he said was factually accurate. John Murtha is a true American hero, a valient man who served his country bravely.

Shame on the despicable chickenhawks on this forum who dare to question the patriotism of this man because he spoke the truth. You people make me want to  .  You're a collective disgrace.

[Jeremy Roenick]

You have a handful of Marines that have been charged, and the charges have been dropped, one has been found NOT GUILTY, and one is pending.

You're holding an empty bag AV, no matter how much "gloss" you want to throw on this thread.  And Murtha's "conviction" of these men before they were investigated or tried was blatantly wreckless and for his own gain.  That is despicable.  Using the death of civilians in a war zone, and the exploitation of our soldiers for his own political gain.