Correction - 31,486 scientists not 17,200 flat-earthers I mean Scientists Dispute Global Warming

[Dementia_Madness]

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/162241/17_200_Scientists_Dispute_Global_Warming

Is there a scientific consensus on the topic of man made global warming? If you read the news in the major media you would have cause to believe that there is.

The truth is very different. Most of the media articles you will see refer to reports issued by the IPCC. The IPCC is the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate change, a political body appointed by the UN. Many of the 3,000 members of this panel are not scientists, but simply political appointees. The few real scientists on the panel have disputed the panel's findings but have been silenced by having their comments deleted from the reports.

Several of these scientists have asked to have their names removed from the IPCC report, but have had their requests denied. Several have actually sued the panel to have their names removed, but few have been successful.

The actual fact regarding consensus on this issue is that there are many more scientists who dispute the claims regarding global warming than there are who support them.

Given the fact that over 17,200 scientists have signed this petition, I would have to say that there certainly is no consensus among scientists that global warming is real or that it is man made. Those who promote the global warming hypothesis have a political agenda, not a scientific one. They are on a malicious mission to shut down the world's industrial societies and prevent the 4 billion or so human beings living in the third world from ever improving their condition. I find this to be unconscionable and inhuman. I condemn these people.

It is interesting to note that the strongest proponents of global warming here at SPS also have the same political desires toward industrial societies.....just an inconvenient truth I suppose.

[Sasquatch]

It is so obvious that these 17,200 scientists are Ditto Heads.

[NCVol]

Well, Mondo keeps really showing his brilliance by bringing up this petition.  I've looked at it and I think, actually, that the best evidence for the deniers is actually this petition of leading scientists.  

First of all, just look at the stringent requirements for getting on that list!
http://www.petitionproject.org/index.php

Thank you for your interest in signing this petition, which has now been signed by more than 30,000 American scientists. Signatories to the petition are required to have formal training in the analysis of information in physical science. This includes primarily those with BS, MS, or PhD degrees in science, engineering, or related disciplines.

Wow, the formal training means those "primarily" with an actual degree in "science."  That's some high hurdle.I looked it up and ONLY 682,200 folks graduated in "science" in 2001 and 2002, or about 350,000 per year.  So in a period of 20 years, only 7 million or so would be eligible to sign this petition!  Only SEVEN MILLION.  And of a total eligible population of, lets be conservative, TEN MILLION, they got 17,200 to sign, or 0.17% (0.0017) of the total population of "scientists" agrees that global warming is nonsense!  

But the greatness of the petition doesn't stop there.  Why look at some of the names on it.

Several environmental groups questioned dozens of the names: "Perry S. Mason" (the fictitious lawyer?), "Michael J. Fox" (the actor?), "Robert C. Byrd" (the senator?), "John C. Grisham" (the lawyer-author?). And then there's the Spice Girl, a k a. Geraldine Halliwell: The petition listed "Dr. Geri Halliwell" and "Dr. Halliwell."

Now it's true that those names have been removed since the petition organizers are very worried about fakes and cranks.  In fact, this is how they described their rigorous fact checking of the signers.

Asked about the pop singer, Robinson said he was duped. The returned petition, one of thousands of mailings he sent out, identified her as having a degree in microbiology and living in Boston. "It's fake," he said.

"When we're getting thousands of signatures there's no way of filtering out a fake," Robinson, 56, said in a telephone interview from Oregon.

I know, I know, that sounds like they don't actually fact check the signers at all, and I could send in a card for "Mickey Mouse" (ACORN anyone?!) and it might or might get posted, but hey, we're only talking about a few names, and the real accomplishment is getting 0.0015 of eligible scientists to agree!  

So yes, this petition is a prime, classic example of the evidence on the side of the deniers.  It should be used as the POSTER CHILD for the rigor that those in the denier camp use to evaluate the evidence!!!  

Thanks for keeping this petition in the public eye, Mondo, it does what I could never do as far as illustrating the intellectual honesty of your position!!!  

[Flummoxed Lummox]

It is interesting to note that the strongest proponents of global warming here at SPS also have the same political desires toward industrial societies.....just an inconvenient truth I suppose.

Here's an inconvenient truth: NC Vol just ripped to shreads your argument (see above post).

The flat earthers will always be with us. Just don't confuse them with the majority, nor with objective, measurable reality.

[Dementia_Madness]

Nice try NC....

On one hand you complain about the arguments of "Non-scientists" and now you are complaining that the scientists are not the qualified enough for you

well let us examine the REAL numbers and the QUALIFICATIONS

http://www.petitionproject.org/qualifications_of_signers.php

All of the listed signers have formal educations in fields of specialization that suitably qualify them to evaluate the research data related to the petition statement. Many of the signers currently work in climatological, meteorological, atmospheric, environmental, geophysical, astronomical, and biological fields directly involved in the climate change controversy.

The Petition Project classifies petition signers on the basis of their formal academic training, as summarized below. Scientists often pursue specialized fields of endeavor that are different from their formal education, but their underlying training can be applied to any scientific field in which they become interested.

Outlined below are the numbers of Petition Project signatories, subdivided by educational specialties. These have been combined, as indicated, into seven categories.

1. Atmospheric, environmental, and Earth sciences includes 3,804 scientists trained in specialties directly related to the physical environment of the Earth and the past and current phenomena that affect that environment.

2. Computer and mathematical sciences includes 935 scientists trained in computer and mathematical methods. Since the human-caused global warming hypothesis rests entirely upon mathematical computer projections and not upon experimental observations, these sciences are especially important in evaluating this hypothesis.

3. Physics and aerospace sciences include 5,812 scientists trained in the fundamental physical and molecular properties of gases, liquids, and solids, which are essential to understanding the physical properties of the atmosphere and Earth.

4. Chemistry includes 4,821 scientists trained in the molecular interactions and behaviors of the substances of which the atmosphere and Earth are composed.

5. Biology and agriculture includes 2,965 scientists trained in the functional and environmental requirements of living things on the Earth.

6. Medicine includes 3,046 scientists trained in the functional and environmental requirements of human beings on the Earth.

7. Engineering and general science includes 10,103 scientists trained primarily in the many engineering specialties required to maintain modern civilization and the prosperity required for all human actions, including environmental programs.

Now, if you ask me that's pretty impressive..and not simply a bunch of flat earthers  Lane  But hey you have Al Gore....I guess that counts for something.

Now you may want to try and argue that a few fake signatures places the whole lot under question, but IF you indeed have ever been involved with petitions you know that the "enemy" always resorts to this tactic, that's why petitions are given a statistical variance for accuracy. If you act me the presence of such does not cast a shadow on our side, rather it shows the immature and petty tactics the global warmers will sink to to get some form of satisfaction or feeling of joy from acting like a teenager, it casts the greatest shadow on those that support Global warming and how they have no problem manipulating numbers to suite their needs.

http://www.petitionproject.org/frequently_asked_questions.php

5. Does the petition list contain names other than those of scientist signers?

    Opponents of the petition project sometimes submit forged signatures in efforts to discredit the project. Usually, these efforts are eliminated by our verification procedures. On one occasion, a forged signature appeared briefly on the signatory list. It was removed as soon as discovered.

    In a group of more than 30,000 people, there are many individuals with names similar or identical to other signatories, or to non-signatories – real or fictional. Opponents of the petition project sometimes use this statistical fact in efforts to discredit the project. For examples, Perry Mason and Michael Fox are scientists who have signed the petition – who happen also to have names identical to fictional or real non-scientists.

 Lane

6. Does the petition project list contain duplicate names?

    Thousands of scientists have signed the petition more than once. These duplicates have been carefully removed from the petition list. The list contains many instances of scientists with closely similar and sometimes identical names, as is statistically expected in a list of this size, but these signers are different people, who live at different addresses, and usually have different fields of specialization. Primarily as a result of name and address variants, occasional duplicate names are found in the list. These are immediately removed.

[Dementia_Madness]

Here's an inconvenient truth: NC Vol just ripped to shreads your argument (see above post).

The flat earthers will always be with us. Just don't confuse them with the majority, nor with objective, measurable reality.

Opinions are like what?  

Let's see Ncvol ripped what?

Right....I think in effect he actually ripped his OWN argument that it is HE that listens to the SCIENCE and we that do not.....He, just like you are, is driven by his liberal political mindset, This is evident to the objective observer. He, just like you are, is deluding himself by thinking that EVERYONE who doesn't agree with him (and you) are idiots and liars. In fact we have evidence that it is the warmers who have been proven to be Liars, and probably idiots, for thinking that their Maleficence would not be exposed.

Thanks for keeping this petition in the public eye, Mondo, it does what I could never do as far as illustrating the intellectual honesty of your position!!!  

I agree this petition does point out my Honesty and YOUR intellectual dishonesty, after all you would not ignore any science now would you? In the end even though I agree, I think it is YOUR dishonesty that more perfectly illustrates my honesty. Keep on trying, I enjoy the entertainment...and welcome any chance to further offer evidence for "my side".

[Flummoxed Lummox]

According to the results of a one-time questionnaire-based statistical survey published by the University of Illinois, with 3146 individuals completing the survey, 97% of the actively publishing climate scientists (as opposed to the scientists who are not publishing actively) agree that human activity, such as flue gas emissions from fossil fuel combustion and deforestation, is a significant contributing factor to global climate change. According to additional sources, the majority of scientists who work on climate change agree on the main points.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_consensus

D  M,

97% of the scientists in this study say you're full of it.

Face it. You and the handful of scientists you can cite who deny the reality of global warming are the lunatic fringe. If you had lived in the Middle Ages you would have denied the earth was round and would have laughed at Galileo when he claimed the earth was not the center of the universe. You would have found dozens of learned scholars who would have agreed, like you, that the earth was, in fact, the center of the universe. The only thing that has changed is the era in which we live. Your mindset is the same as the flat earthers and those who condemned Galileo.

[Dementia_Madness]

Give me five minutes a computer and a Wikipedia account and I'll prove the pope has polka dotted underwear.

 

We have over 17,200 NAMES you have an arbitrary number with no correlation of data to give us an ideal of how much that number represents or who those people are you assume are truthfully being represented...for all you know ACORN could have gotten the numbers from Dr. Mickey Mouse.

In the end you still have 2 names Algore and the UN.

17,200 NAMED SCIENTISTS say you are full of it.

[Flummoxed Lummox]

Give me five minutes a computer and a Wikipedia account and I'll prove the pope has polka dotted underwear.

Okay, prove it. I'll even give you 15 minutes. It's almost 12:30 EST. I give you until 12:45 to "prove" the Pope has polka dotted underwear.

You won't because, as usual, you're full of . You make outrageous statements (implying anything found on Wikipedia is bogus) and then can't back them up.

[Dementia_Madness]

We do note that you ignored the TRUTH in the statement

Where are your names? What is your numbers?


17,200 NAMED SCIENTISTS say you are full of it. PROVE THEM WRONG.

(for the record I did not imply that anuyhing found on Wikipedia us bogus, simply the fact that everything found there is not 100% complete fact)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer

Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here.

I would say it is highly illogical for you to argue that YOU can guarantee something that Wikipedia itself does not guarantee.

[Flummoxed Lummox]

We do note that you ignored the TRUTH in the statement

Where are your names? What is your numbers?


17,200 NAMED SCIENTISTS say you are full of it. PROVE THEM WRONG. 

Uh no. I will get to that AFTER you back up your claim.

YOU (not I) made this bold statement: "Give me five minutes a computer and a Wikipedia account and I'll prove the pope has polka dotted underwear."

I'm still waiting psychoman. Let's see the proof of the Pope's unusual taste in underwear as YOU claimed. Once again, you are exposed as the fraud that you are.

[Dementia_Madness]

I do not live to serve at your whim and will....you are taking a statement made in jest, although based in fact, as an arguing point and denying the TRUTH of the argument....which is we have a number and names to go with it..YOU SAY there is consensus, well, prove it. If you do not then we will all see that the fact is you have nothing but your assumptions and opinions, add those to the fact that that's exactly what ALGORE and the UN have, and we all can see just where your arguments come from.

So either you can continue to look like the emptiness that you are, or you can be a man and prove your point...who is the consensus, names and numbers...

Give me five minutes a computer and a Wikipedia account and I'll prove the pope has polka dotted underwear.

 

We have over 17,200 NAMES you have an arbitrary number with no correlation of data to give us an ideal of how much that number represents or who those people are you assume are truthfully being represented...for all you know ACORN could have gotten the numbers from Dr. Mickey Mouse.

In the end you still have 2 names Algore and the UN.

17,200 NAMED SCIENTISTS say you are full of it.