US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels'

[plumbervol]

LTC
I mentioned RCC and Experimental Drug policy and Gray does not know what the hell I am talking about.

Ever thought about how much of the health care industry is dependent on the Federal Government for developing treatment and disease control? The one thing I know is that the more people that lose Health Care coverage the higher my costs in premiums as the industry shift the cost to those of us who actually have coverage. FACT!!

[LTC]

FACTS??  Facts merely get in the way of conservative wingnuts like grey. They live in a fantasy world in which reality has no meaning. They are couch potato conservatives who don't do their homework and just haul off and say nutty things. They have no interest in anything resembling the TRUTH!

[Just Win]

The left can foment all they want with loquacious lamentations of falsehoods but the bottom line is the people that run the Post Office, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the VA, and the Department of Agriculture will be rationing health care if the Democrat Obama Health Care Bill is allowed to come to fruition. The curve below explains how the rationing will take place. The bottom line is the younger you are and the more future tax payments you can make to the national government the better quality and greater quantity of health care delivery you will receive. The inverse is of course also true; the older you are and the fewer cash flow tax payments you can make to the national government the less health care you will receive. Also, look at the early years of life. If your have a child born with some sort of illness look out! Your health care for this child will be severely curtailed. You measure the goodness of a society by how they take care of those that are unable (notice the modifying word unable you welfare state proponents) to take care of themselves. Namely, the young , the old, and the unborn. Socialism leas to inferior products and services and rationing every time it is tried.


The Dworkin's curve also known as the "Death Panel Curve" or the "PT Cruiser Death Curve"curve.png?w=500&h=207[/img]

[NCVol]

the disingenuous-ness with which liberals decry free-market principles as "rationing" simply because the deadbeats of society cannot leech off the govt tit is astounding

OK, you don't like using the term rationing to describe the allocation of scarce resources in a "free market" economy.  That's fine, so what term do you like.  "I got mine, F off and die, scum."  "No money, no service."  "Payment required before treatment.  NO EXCEPTIONS." 

And pretending that it's just the evil "deadbeats" who have trouble with access is ignorant or dishonest.  If my wife dies, or loses her job, I'm uninsurable for the only condition that I know I need insurance for.  If you have diabetes, are a heart attack survivor, or are simply one of the millions of working poor who have a part time job without benefits, because that's what you can get, then you're f*cked.  Also if you're disabled and can't work, or can't work maybe because you used to be a manual laborer, and age or injury of sickness prevents you from doing that job.  Well, sure, Walmart is hiring greeters part time, but they don't offer benefits.  Sorry, that'll take a while, and the wages suck, so it's eat or get insurance.  You choose, deadbeat! 

Do you ever actually think about the issues?  Or is it easier to live in a world where it's always black and white, free market's baby!!!  So sad that 20-30% are screwed in such a system, it's GREAT for the rest of society! 

[NCVol]

The Dworkin's curve also known as the "Death Panel Curve" or the "PT Cruiser Death Curve"curve.png?w=500&h=207[/img]

JW, How would you allocate that one liver among the 100 that need it? 

For example, should it go to an 85 year old with a failing heart and dementia, living in a nursing home, or an other wise healthy father of four children under 12, in his forties?  I know you don't like that age might play some role, so tell us if you had that one liver, which person you'd give it to.  In multiple choice form.

A) 85 year old with a failing heart and dementia, living in a nursing home
B) Father of four in his forties

A OR B, you choose. 

[Just Win]

JW, How would you allocate that one liver among the 100 that need it?  

For example, should it go to an 85 year old with a failing heart and dementia, living in a nursing home, or an other wise healthy father of four children under 12, in his forties?  I know you don't like that age might play some role, so tell us if you had that one liver, which person you'd give it to.  In multiple choice form.

A) 85 year old with a failing heart and dementia, living in a nursing home
B) Father of four in his forties

A OR B, you choose.  

Oh I see. We are back on the kidney transplant canard except this time you are using the liver transplant argument when you know the death panel graph above is not about transplants but about health care delivery under Obamacare.. We can play that game as well. Your question reminds me of a pharisee trying to trick someone into some kind of mindless argument. What are going to ask me next? How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

 Your analogy with the 85 year-old man getting health care is a non sequitor based on a fallacy that we are forced to chose between transplant candidates with differing variables. You are presenting the omniscient governmental death panel analysis as if the decision will be based on some sort of "quality of life"criteria. I know the Democrat talking points web site instructs you to present this false conundrum but you know this is not how the curve will be used. The curve represents how Socialist Health Care primary health care delivery resources will be allocated and you know it. Your question is a sham. That kind of sloppy thinking may work on some of the liberal boards where thinking is not valued but it will not work on this formum.

 The 85 year-old will not receive any medical care with the exception of pain relieving medication because he can not contribute sufficient tax payment cash flows to Uncle Sam to justify his existence. Ergo, the death panel will decide based on the economic contribution that elderly person can make to the treasury. Besides, at the end of the year when that 85 year-old dies the government gets 55% of his estate over $650K. or is $550k? You are the tax account so you tell us. The 85 year-old is worth more dead than alive to Uncle Sam. It cost too much to keep the octogenarian alive so deny the medical coverage and reduce the national government health service expenditures by not treating the old man and collect the death tax when he dies. Don't ya love socialized medicine?


Dr. Zeke  and the death panels

[NCVol]

I sometimes can't tell if you're really as dense as your writings.  Take this for example

Your analogy with the 85 year-old man getting health care is a non sequitor based on a fallacy that we are forced to chose between transplant candidates with differing variables.

In fact we are forced to choose between transplant candidates.  There are simply not enough organs to fill the demand of those who need an  organ transplant to have any chance at life.  

And you know, it is possible that the curve will be used by a private insurance company death panel to ration care, I don't know.  But that is not how the curve was presented, and it's certainly not what Emmanuel was discussing when he included the aged based priority system as ONE of SEVERAL potential ways to allocate ONE kidney among dozens who will die without it, an ER slot during a national disaster, etc.  So either way, you're ignorant or a liar in the way you present that graph, take your pick.