James Dobson's Patented Cure for the Gay

[LTC]

James Dobson's advice on how to ensure your son doesn't catch The Gay:

Meanwhile, the boy's father has to do his part. He needs to mirror and affirm his son's maleness. He can play rough-and-tumble games with his son, in ways that are decidedly different from the games he would play with a little girl. He can help his son learn to throw and catch a ball. He can teach him to pound a square wooden peg into a square hole in a pegboard. He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis, just like his, only bigger.

Too... many... jokes... choice... paralysis... kicking... in...

ADDENDUM: Via the folks at The Corner, I see this line is actually a passage Dobson approvingly quotes from a fellow traveler's unpublished manuscript, not the Dob's own original wisdom.

http://reason.com/blog/2005/08/11/james-dobsons-patented-cure-fo

I wonder.....................is that what kept grey from being gay?   

[Flummoxed Lummox]

James Dobson is one of the most vile excuses for a human being on this planet.

Yeah, I'm sure having Dad shower with son will put an end to all homosexuality.  What's frightening is that many will believe this charlatan.

[GRAY]

It's pretty irrefutable that most gays have an absence of a close bonding relationship with the same-sex parent. Boys might begin playing with dolls, walking and talking effeminately, etc.  Girls might cut their hair short, dress like a boy, etc.  These are simply signs that the child feels like he or she doesn't fit the norm.  Not all boys feel the macho and not all girls feel the girly girl. This is absolutely normal. 

What isn't normal, is, in the either emotional or physical absence of influence from the same sex parent, these feelings, encouraged by our pro-gay pop culture (a typical reaction when a character comes out on television is "that's GREAT!"), becoming twisted and combining with other societal abnormalities that creep into one's psyche as a result of not fitting in, finally transforming into a woman wanting to "lick beaver" or a man desiring to play "fudge hide and seek". A person in this predicament has literally convinced himself or herself that she is the opposite sex inside the wrong body. 

See the male sportswriter who came out as a she.   Eventually "it" committed suicide. 

In NYC you see women with big muscles and mens' clothes holding hands, or men with tight shirts and girl jeans prancing around arm in arm.  This is NOT genetic. This is childhood experience that was not caught early and fixed.     

[NCVol]

It's pretty irrefutable that most gays have an absence of a close bonding relationship with the same-sex parent. Boys might begin playing with dolls, walking and talking effeminately, etc.  Girls might cut their hair short, dress like a boy, etc.  These are simply signs that the child feels like he or she doesn't fit the norm.  Not all boys feel the macho and not all girls feel the girly girl. This is absolutely normal. 

Irrefutable implies you have documented evidence, instead of ignorantly held opinions.  I'd like to see your evidence that "most" didn't have a close relationship with mom or dad?  And what is "most" - 50.1%, 60%, 99% and if it's just more than half, what happened to the others who did have very close relationships with their same sex parent and are gay.  Furthermore, I know lots of straight people who despised one or both of their parents, were abused by them, they were drunks, distant, were never home because of work travel, abandoned them as childs, etc.  Do these have a tendency to become gay, too.  In other words, out of kids who don't have a close relationship with, say, dad, why do some turn out gay, others straight.  What is the cause?  Did one dad somehow instill both contempt or hate from their child but somehow the correct sexual orientation and the other not, and if that's the case, what did one dad do differently.  Do kids from single mothers turn out to become gay more often than kids in a two parent family?  If not, why not? 

What isn't normal, is, in the either emotional or physical absence of influence from the same sex parent, these feelings, encouraged by our pro-gay pop culture (a typical reaction when a character comes out on television is "that's GREAT!"), becoming twisted and combining with other societal abnormalities that creep into one's psyche as a result of not fitting in, finally transforming into a woman wanting to "lick beaver" or a man desiring to play "fudge hide and seek". A person in this predicament has literally convinced himself or herself that she is the opposite sex inside the wrong body. 

This isn't a pro-gay culture.  Certainly, there wasn't a "pro-gay" culture in the 40s and 50s and 60s, there isn't a pro-gay culture in the ME, where homosexuals might be executed, so that's simply not a reason for a person to become gay.  And even in this culture, where there is more acceptance, the overwhelming societal influence is to be straight.  Homosexual kids are mocked and bullied and beat up, often mercilessly.  Their families and friends abandon them, their church won't accept them, they face discrimination literally in every facet of their lives.  So it's quite ridiculous to assume that a favorable treatment of gays on Will and Grace overwhelms what those kids see and face every day from REAL people, those closest to them. 

And gay people do not as a rule think they're a girl in a man's body or vice versa.  Those are different, transexuals maybe, but it's not a charactistic of gays, and to imply it is shows your extreme ignorance on this subject.

See the male sportswriter who came out as a she.   Eventually "it" committed suicide. 

As I said, the vast majority of gays don't want to change their sex.  They are attracted to the same sex.  There is a huge difference.  And committing suicide could be for many different reasons.  Among them, the contempt that folks like you I'm sure showed the person on a nearly daily basis. 

In NYC you see women with big muscles and mens' clothes holding hands, or men with tight shirts and girl jeans prancing around arm in arm.  This is NOT genetic. This is childhood experience that was not caught early and fixed.

I guess you see a little bit of everything up there.  Girls and guys with tatoos all over their bodies, pierced in 100 places, with purple hair, no hair, spiked hair, etc.  I'm sure you also see, but don't always notice, homosexuals dressed in suits, or slacks and a golf shirt, going to work, going to dinner, and behaving pretty much exactly like you do.  Pointing out the behavior of some people in a city like NYC isn't proof of anything other than some gay men dress differently and some gay women act more masculine.  What's the point of your stereotype?

And "Fixed" how?  More gladiator movies?  Playing football?  Looking at Playboy magazine?  Going fishing with the old man.  Seeing mom and dad have sex? 

I'm not sure why I treated this seriously, but the point is you cannot and won't defend any of your opinions with any facts at all.  They don't exist.  It's made up crap by intolerant bigots to somehow blame the kid, his parents, both, for the fact of someone being gay.  Believe it or not, we don't actually know why some people in every culture, in every walk of life, from any area, from the beginning of recorded history to today simple are or become gay.  You can't and therefore won't cite any study that can show how this occurs in permissive and incredibly intolerant societies, from ancient times through today. 

[GRAY]

Its the sissy boy or butch girl, combined with the lack of parent recognition or acknowledgement that leads to this illness.  Therefore, a kid who isn't like the above would not "turn gay" due to parental neglect or abuse.

It is not simply will and grace, it is virtually every TV show on the air.

If one is merely attracted to the same sex, why not keep it "in house"?  You like penis, you have penis! God is good! Maybe they teach that in these "gay" churches.

God gave people to their depraved desires in the Old Testament. He will allow it to happen if a person insists on such immoral behavior. The illness is not a choice.  The behavior is. 

When one is ill, one will risk incredible harm to satisfy an addiction.  See alcoholics, drug addicts, addicts of gay sex or even just the gay lifestyle. Be it the Middle East or anywhere else. 

Society warps the person to the point that he or she feels accepted, even as he or she continues to question every act and deed, seemingly knowing that the gay life isn't square with our wiring. Gays are among the most insecure disillusioned people on the planet.  But instead of trying to cure the real issues, we instead redefine normal, doing a real disservice to the men and women suffering from this illness. 

[GRAY]

For the record, I never condemn a person for the illness. I do however, comdemn the behavior, especially when there is an obvious "outreach" agenda in place.  Gays, by demanding their illness to be accepted as normal, are literally forcing their lifestyle into the mainstream.

Many, mostly on the left, have fallen for the "normal" designation.  This allows the movement to infiltrate our public schools, pop culture, etc.  

There is indoctrination and coaching going on.  "Gay" is great.  Go into any public school health class.  Instead of a disease/illness like schizophrenia, alcoholism, OCD, it is treated as "normal".  

A HUGE majority of voters have recognized across the U.S. that "gay is NOT "normal".  What happens? We have judges overturning the will of the people, and in addition, the most egregious of correlations is taking place.  That is, that being "gay" is just like being "black".  This is completely laughable but proponents have been very aggressive, prissy, and loud.  Despite the fact that we have ZERO scientific evidence which conclusively proves a genetic link to the "gay" (And there will be none.  There is none.). We have a segment of the population that has accepted such a connection.  Why?  Because it is politically correct to do so.  

So don't waste my time with baseless allegations of hatred or a tolerance for violence against the mentally ill.  This is more melodrama from the left.
 
Calling anyone with whom they disagree a "bigot" is the final place of refuge for a leftist.  

November is coming, although the left, when it loses at the ballot box, goes to the courts, which is another reason that strict consitutionalists like Thomas, Roberts and Scalia are so important to this nation.  God bless them.    

[NCVol]

I noticed you provide no basis or evidence for your bigoted opinions.  But of course, I knew that would be the case. 

Sooo, if you're sissy and dad doesn't approve and is distant, then you might become gay?  Is that the fancy theory you're working on?  You know, it might be that being "sissy" is why dads don't like their kids and son doesn't have a good relationship with dad, who hates fags like you do?  Maybe the kid figures out old dad hates the homos, and that is a bit of a problem with their relationship.  Ever ask your gay friends how dad treats them, or mom?  I can tell you some/many simply disown the child.  So which comes first, being gay, and then the distant relationship, or does the distant relationship happen first.  Why is the kid sissy and all gay acting to begin with?  Was it dad being distant early on, the influence of cartoons, his friends, what?  And, again, how does dad cure the homo out of the son who's being prissy?  Leaving the Hustler in the bathroom?  More gladiator movies, throwing the football around on Saturday morning?  Going hunting and killing some squirrels or rabbits or doves?  A deer even!!!!  And I'm just wondering, is being a good female athlete being butch, or do you have to favor flannel shirts as a girl and not like makeup or playing with dolls.  For there to be a theory, you have to explain

Sheesh.  It's one long string of crap pop psychology you're spouting.

And sure, people can be celibate and gay.  It works out for gay people about like it works out for many priests.  Denying one's sexuality is unrealistic and destined to fail, the only real question is how it will fail and who will get hurt in the process.  Think about yourself, and wonder, what would it be like to live a life without sex or physical attraction or a loving partner.  I don't think it's fair to expect anyone to do that, personally.  What you'd prefer, I suppose, is a gay person pretending to be straight and marrying some poor woman (or man) who will find out soon enough that their spouse has no interest in them as a sexual partner.  That's also a recipe for marriage failure, but I suppose living a lie is better than living an honest existence in your world. 

BTW, no, calling someone a bigot who is a bigot is simply being honest. 

Bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

You display an amazing amount of intolerance for gays, the poor, Muslims, blacks, immigrants, and others.  I can't judge "hate" versus "intense dislike" but along with the intolerance is either hate or intense dislike, disdain.  It's just fact that you prove with nearly every post.  And you can pretend you don't condemn people for BEING gay, just ACTING gay - the fact is they are one and the same.  Might as well say you don't condemn Muslims for being Muslim, just going to Muslim churches and worshiping Allah rather than some other God you approve of.  I suppose if they didn't wear funny clothes and have beards and pray all the dang time and if they'd renounce the Koran and Muhammad, you'd be just fine with Muslims!  Hey, just pretend to be who you're not, pretend to be a WASP, and Gray is GREAT with you.  Anyone convinced by that bit of horseshiate is really stupid. 

[professor nono]

In my opinion, it goes beyond genetics.  There are many documented cases of identical twins where one is gay and the other is not (I understand that we do not know everything about genetics but this is an opinion, not a claim of fact).  It also goes beyond environment - as NC so thoroughly documented, there is no reliable link between environment and homosexuality - there are just too many variables (assuming you have a basic understanding of statistical analysis).  So what is it?  Why does this take place?  I'm not sure we will ever know.  God knows, but I'm not sure our human minds will ever comprehend.  Further, I would point out that homosexuality is one thing - the preference for sexual relations with someone of the same gender.  However, love for another is an entirely different matter.  Would God condemn nonsexual true love for someone of the same gender?  

Why did I start this..............

[NCVol]

The research seems to show that identical twins are much more likely to both be gay than fraternal twins, so genetics could be a part of the cause.  I've read about for identical twins, if one is gay, about half of the time the other twin is also gay.  The percentage for fraternal twins, with the same upbringing, etc. is about a fourth of that.  I don't know what causes it.  It's a mystery to me and to the gay people I know.

At the end of the day, I don't think it matters unless you use the lack of concrete genetic links as proof that it's a choice that can be changed with some program of homo recovery or whatever.  There is simply no evidence that it can work for most homosexuals, and lots of evidence that it will ultimately fail in changing orientation.  For a small percentage of very motivated individuals, it's possible to change how they act, they marry, have sex with their wife on occasion, produce kids, etc. But even here, the proof of an actual change in orientation is not conclusive.  Many or maybe most gay men and women have had sexual relationships, girlfriends or boyfriends, often they marry, with the opposite sex to try to BE straight.  Every clue from society literally SCREAMS at them to be "normal" and so they try, despite the bullcrap about Will and Grace, etc.  The ones that come out simply figure out it won't ever work and decide living a lie isn't viable long term, and more importantly, in the case of some, including my brother, isn't or would not be fair the the straight spouse who deserves a person who is genuinely physically attracted to them.  It seems to me that's the more honest and loving decision, instead of pretending to be straight so that you can have the all american family, despite the lie to enter the marriage to the unknowing straight spouse and long odds of it working out long term. 

And the question about a loving relationship is a good one.  A big misconception is being gay is all about sex.  It's not all about sex for gay people any more than our marriages with our spouses are all about sex for us straight people.  And no, I can't see how true love, and it exists with gay people just like it does with straight people, would or should be condemned.  I can't speak about what God would approve of, there's a different interpretation depending on your religion, your denomination, and your local church, so I can leave that up to individuals, but I don't see how condemning loving relationships between consenting adults serves society in any way.  It seems to me society is best served by encouraging lasting, binding commitments for both gay and straight couples. 

[Flummoxed Lummox]

For the record, I never condemn a person for the illness. I do however, comdemn the behavior, especially when there is an obvious "outreach" agenda in place.  Gays, by demanding their illness to be accepted as normal, are literally forcing their lifestyle into the mainstream.

Many, mostly on the left, have fallen for the "normal" designation.  This allows the movement to infiltrate our public schools, pop culture, etc.  

There is indoctrination and coaching going on.  "Gay" is great.  Go into any public school health class.  Instead of a disease/illness like schizophrenia, alcoholism, OCD, it is treated as "normal".

A HUGE majority of voters have recognized across the U.S. that "gay is NOT "normal".  What happens? We have judges overturning the will of the people, and in addition, the most egregious of correlations is taking place.  That is, that being "gay" is just like being "black".  This is completely laughable but proponents have been very aggressive, prissy, and loud.  Despite the fact that we have ZERO scientific evidence which conclusively proves a genetic link to the "gay" (And there will be none.  There is none.). We have a segment of the population that has accepted such a connection.  Why?  Because it is politically correct to do so.  

So don't waste my time with baseless allegations of hatred or a tolerance for violence against the mentally ill.  This is more melodrama from the left.
 
Calling anyone with whom they disagree a "bigot" is the final place of refuge for a leftist.  

November is coming, although the left, when it loses at the ballot box, goes to the courts, which is another reason that strict consitutionalists like Thomas, Roberts and Scalia are so important to this nation.  God bless them.    

[NCVol]

Don't forget about George Rekers, religious right wing repressed homosexual, founder of a homo recovery group and frequent commentator on the fact that gay people can change their orientation.

Here he is with his "rentboy" who he hired from a gay website to "carry his luggage" while on an extended trip to Europe with the "rentboy" standing idly by while George actually pushes his own luggage.  



http://media.miaminewtimes.com/4767697.87.jpg

[Flummoxed Lummox]

Don't forget about George Rekers, religious right wing repressed homosexual, founder of a homo recovery group and frequent commentator on the fact that gay people can change their orientation.

Here he is with his "rentboy" who he hired from a gay website to "carry his luggage" while on an extended trip to Europe with the "rentboy" standing idly by while George actually pushes his own luggage.  

Gray is so vociferous in his condemnation of gays that you can't help but wonder why?



George's "rentboy":