Login Topics Posts Members
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Username:
Password:

8426 104807 total members: 407
Latest Member: Rubes
 
Home Help Login Register
 
If your Thick Skinned & like hard-nosed Sports and or Political conversation then this steel and barbed wire cage match type of forum is for you................

Click To Enter

Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Ike's D-Day Decision: "OK, let's go."  (Read 483 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
The One Man Gang
Administrator
Legion of the Miserable
*

Karma: +76/-65535
Offline Offline

Posts: 3049


Thunderin' Jayzus! Didja think I was dead!?!?!


« on: June 06, 2011, 04:09:54 PM »

“OK, Let’s Go.”

The rain was coming down in sheets. A late-spring storm was roaring in from the North Atlantic and the Force-5 winds shook the windows of the country manor house.  Inside, a group of men sat, pondering a great decision. 

It was a scene never to be repeated.  On June 4, 1944 one man held the future of western democracy in his hands.  He was officially known as Supreme Commander, Allied Expeditionary Forces, headquartered at Southwick House in the English countryside.  To the US Army, he was General Dwight David Eisenhower a graduate of West Point (1915) and a career soldier who had never, until 1942, actually commanded a combat operation.  To his friends - and most of all to his troops - he was “Ike.”

The decision he faced this wind-swept night was whether to launch the largest amphibious operation in history - an operation involving thousands of ships and aircraft and well over 100,000 combat troops – in weather that can best be described as “marginal.”  The future of Western Europe hung on that decision.

Already the weather had forced the postponement of  OVERLORD (the code-name for the invasion) from June 5 even as transports and landing craft were leaving their harbors and forming immense convoys in the English Channel. The ships and boats had to put about and return to harbor or simply orbit at sea, awaiting further orders.  Any delay of more than twenty-four hours meant that some ships would run out of fuel. 

Still the rain pounded and the wind blew.

SHAEF’s chief weatherman was a Scot, Group Captain J. M. Stagg.  Stagg reported that he expected the storm to abate on the 5th. He said there would be scattered clouds on the night of June 5-6 but that the air forces should be able to deal with it.

There was one more chance to stop the thing.  A pre-dawn meeting for June 5 was called and Group Captain Stagg would give his latest estimate and the final decision made.   Eisenhower went to his quarters and tried to get some sleep.  He was back up at 0330.

Years later he recalled, “The weather was terrible. Southwick House was shaking. Oh it was really storming.”

Stagg showed up smiling.  He was confident the storm would break and there would be at least 36 hours of good weather.  Still, that was hard to believe given the fury beating on the windows.

In a 1964 interview, Eisenhower said this, “Goodness knows, those fellows meant a lot to me.  But these are decisions that have to be made when you’re in a war. You say to yourself, I’m going to do something that will be to my country’s advantage for the least cost. You can’t say without any cost. You know you’re going to lose some of them, and it’s very, very difficult.”

Finally, Eisenhower stopped and faced his commanders, “OK, let’s go.”

The room emptied in less than thirty seconds.  Eisenhower immediately went from the most powerful man in the Western Alliance to superfluous.  He could now no more stop OVERLORD than King Canute could stop the tide.

Sometime around mid-morning, Ike sat at a portable table and wrote a press release for the last contingency, “Our landings … have failed. … If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine and mine alone.”  He folded the paper and put it in his pocket.

The landings, of course, did succeed. Eleven months later Eisenhower would receive the surrender of the German Army and World War Two in Europe was over.

It’s surprising, in these days of routine micro-management when desk jockeys in Washington can see targeting video in real time from jet fighters in combat and any decision on the battlefield is subject to endless second-guessing and critique from bitter old men retired military officers on television talk shows, just how much trust and confidence was placed on Eisenhower. He made no calls to Washington during this period.  Franklin Roosevelt and Army Chief of Staff General George Marshall left him alone as well.  Indeed so did Winston Churchill despite the fact that most of the troops for the initial landings would be British and Canadian. 

They let him make the call.

He rewarded their confidence seven-fold.

« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 04:15:18 PM by The One Man Gang » Logged

Please use your comments on this post to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Kindly forgo all civility in your discourse. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Thank you.
Jeremy Roenick
Stand-Up Philosopher
Whine and Biscuit King
****

Karma: +12/-45
Online Online

Posts: 2756


Laying down the smack on smug "Progressives"


« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2011, 11:06:10 AM »

Great movie about Ike's struggles before and during Operation Overlord.

Tom Selleck plays Ike.  Probably one of the best performances of his acting career...

Highly recommend viewing.  The only thing I didn't like in this movie was how they portrayed Patton.  I think they missed the mark on him, but otherwise I find it pretty good.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401504/

Logged


"When one person can initiate war, by its definition, a republic no longer exists." - Dr. Ron Paul
The One Man Gang
Administrator
Legion of the Miserable
*

Karma: +76/-65535
Offline Offline

Posts: 3049


Thunderin' Jayzus! Didja think I was dead!?!?!


« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2011, 11:42:29 AM »

You have to remember that GSP was WAY in the doghouse prior to being named to command 3rd US Army.  Striking an enlisted man is a mortal sin.  Doing it twice should have been unforgivable.  Had it not been for the PR aspect and his undeniable command and tactical gifts, Patton would have been dismissed and sent packing to oversee airbase construction on Adak.  Recall the scene in the (Selleck) movie where Ike sends one of his personal friends home for blabbing about the invasion at a cocktail party.

Ike and Georgie were close friends before Sicily.  However, to Ike, duty overrode all other considerations.  Patton never appreciated that.

I say this as a "fan," if you will, of all things Patton.  To me he is akin to Churchill, a man of great ability and determination, a larger-then-life player on the world stage who equally possessed larger-than-life flaws.   You could argue that they not only achieved greatness in SPITE of their flaws, in many ways they achieved their greatness BECAUSE of their flaws.

As Malden/Bradley said in the other movie, "Your drive across France has been brilliant, but George, you're a pain in the neck."
Logged

Please use your comments on this post to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Kindly forgo all civility in your discourse. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Thank you.
Jeremy Roenick
Stand-Up Philosopher
Whine and Biscuit King
****

Karma: +12/-45
Online Online

Posts: 2756


Laying down the smack on smug "Progressives"


« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2011, 12:29:11 PM »

Well stated OMG.  Patton was his own worst enemy.  But Ike would have been foolish to remove him from the Europe theater.  Patton was his best strategist who could get things done.  Funny how he and the 3rd Army were largely a diversionary force that held German focus on the Pas de Calais.  Probably the greatest use of Patton's renowned ability, that was never put in action.  It kept the German armor away from Normandy and saved a lot of allied lives as well as give us a foothold in France.  If full commitment of German armor had been made to Normandy, who knows how it would have played out.

Logged


"When one person can initiate war, by its definition, a republic no longer exists." - Dr. Ron Paul
GRAY
Whine and Biscuit King
****

Karma: +52/-378
Offline Offline

Posts: 1459



« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2011, 09:31:53 PM »

This is an outstanding thread!

Why is it in the Landfill?
Logged
GRAY
Whine and Biscuit King
****

Karma: +52/-378
Offline Offline

Posts: 1459



« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2011, 09:34:19 PM »

I, being a drummer with limited historical knowledge of Patton (I did see Patton, with George C Scott)

I want a comparison from both of you.

The real Patton
Patton by Scott
Patton in the Selleck film.
Logged
The One Man Gang
Administrator
Legion of the Miserable
*

Karma: +76/-65535
Offline Offline

Posts: 3049


Thunderin' Jayzus! Didja think I was dead!?!?!


« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2011, 12:19:42 PM »

One thing to bear in mind is that by 1970, Georgie had been dead for over two decades.  The main technical adviser for the film was Omar Bradley (by then the only surviving 5-star General) who really never liked Patton.  The film itself was based on Ladislas Farago's book "Patton: Ordeal and Triumph" and Bradley's memoir, "A Soldier's Story."  Historian Carlo d'Este has written a much better treatment of Patton in his "Patton: A Genius for War" published in 1995. Bradley, for his part, collaborated with Historian Clay Blair to write "A General's Life" published shortly after the old man's death in 1983.  There has been no independent magisterial biography of Bradley that I am aware of.  He deserves one.

"My own feelings on George were mixed. He had not been my choice for (3rd) Army Commander and I was still wary of the grace with which he would accept our reversal in roles. For George was six years my senior and and had been my Army commander when I fought II Corps in the Sicilian campaign. I was apprehensive in having George join my command, for I feared too much of my time would probably be spent curbing his impetuous habits." - Omar Bradly "A Soldier's Story"

For his part, Patton could be equally scathing in his attitude toward Bradley:

"On the other hand Bradley has many of the attributes which are considered desirable in a general. He wears glasses, has a strong jaw, talks profoundly and says little, and is a shooting companion of the Chief of Staff (George Marshall). Also a loyal man. I consider him among our better generals." - GSP Diary entry 18 January 1944

It is a credit to both men that they subsumed their personal feelings to the job at hand (that happened a lot in WWII) and worked to use their innate strengths to cover the other's weaknesses - both real and perceived.

As to the "Ike" portrayal: Patton was a bit-part player in the OVERLORD drama. He had been secretly appointed to command US 3rd Army but had no troops or equipment to speak of, in fact he couldn't even speak of that.  He was publicly named to command the "First US Army Group" headquartered in Kent across the Dover Straits from Calais which is the historic route for invasions in both directions.  FUSAG as it was known was even less of a command than 3rd Army in that it was entirely made up of dummy formations with dummy radio traffic and complete with inflatable tanks and trucks that were assembled and disassembled at various places to simulate troop movements.  Patton was in no way a part of this other than to be seen at events in the area with full panoply of staff and ceremony.  It was as a part of this latter that he gave the infamous Knutsford speech where he made a joke about the US and Britain "ruling the world." 

It's hard for us to realize, some seventy years hence, just what kind of firestorm this set off. The State Department was, at the time, basically a branch office of the NKVD (McCarthy was absolutely right about this) which was ever alert for signs of a weakening of US/British support for the Red Army.  Patton, being a hard-core and outspoken anti-Communist was, of course, Undesirable #1 in the US Army, so anything he said was going to be leaked and amplified.  Also, don't forget that the VPOTUS at the time was an avowed Socialist, Henry Wallace.  The leftist oinking made its way to the White House and Congress who then complained to both Ike and Marshall along with demands that *something* be done about it. 

"Apparently I am again in an incident due to a three minute talk I made at a gathering of some 50 people at which, by the way. the chairman (she was a woman) said I was unofficial. I feel pretty bad today as anything may happen, but at least I still have the When and If (his boat). I may be using it soon. 

"It is a horrid thought that one may be deprived of doing the only job one is good at due to the exercise of free speech, but that thought is always with me - it is a wonderful morale builder!?!?!

"Bah! Jesus only suffered one night but I have had months and months of it, and the cross is not yet in sight, though probably just around the corner." - GSP, letter to Nina Patton Totten 27 April 1944

Patton figured this was the end of his career.  He undoubtedly knew or at least guessed the gist of a message that Eisenhower had sent to Marshall:

"I have grown so weary of the trouble he constantly causes you and the War Department, to say nothing of myself, that I am seriously contemplating the most drastic action." DDE cable to GCM, 30 April 1944

The version of the Ike/Patton meeting of 1 May 1944 as shown in the "Ike" film is right out of Eisenhower's own book, "At Ease: Stories I tell to friends."

"(I)n a gesture of almost little boy contriteness, he put his head on my shoulder ... this caused his helmet to fall off - a gleaming helmet I sometimes thought he wore in bed. As it rolled across the room I had the rather odd feeling that I was in the middle of a ridiculous situation." - quoted in "Eisenhower: A Soldier's Life" by Carlo d'Este

Ike let Patton stew for another day then sent him a telegram: 

"I am once more taking the responsibility of retaining you in command in spite of damaging repercussions resulting from a personal indiscretion. I do this solely because of my faith in you as a battle leader and from no other motives." - DDE to GSP, Jr., 3 May 1944 (emphasis added)

d'Este speculates that one reason Patton was retained was that the only other man either Ike or Bradley could countenance to lead 3rd Army was Lt. General Lucian Truscott who had just assumed command of VI Corps on the Anzio beach-head in Italy and was thoroughly occupied cleaning up that epic mess and near disaster.

As an aside, the monologue Scott/Patton delivers in the scene after this meeting is straight from Patton's diary entry for 1 May 1944. This includes the famous, "His will be done."

As to Scott's portrayal of Patton I will relate a story.  One of Patton's former friends who had also served on his staff and was now (1970) in his dotage went to see the movie with others.  He reportedly was amazed but still upset. "Dammit! They got Georgie to do this movie but why the hell couldn't they get Coddie?"  He was referring to Col. Charles Codman, Patton's Chief of Staff. Scott's portrayal was so spot-on the old man thought it WAS Patton in the film!

The whole Montgomery/Patton dispute was quite overstated in the movie particularly in the post D-Day scenes.  By that point Monty was an Army Group commander which was a whole command level over Patton's as commander of a numbered field army.  It's like the difference between being a D-1 head coach and a head coach in the NFL. When 3rd Army became operational on 1 August 1944, Bradley assumed command of XII Army Group and was then Monty's equal in the command structure.  By the end of the war, Bradley's command represented the greatest combat formation of American troops under one commander in history.  XII US Army Group consisted of 1st US Army (General Courtney Hodges), 3rd US Army (Patton) and 9th US Army (General William Simpson) and 15th US Army (Gen, Leonard T. Gerow) for a total force of about 1.5 million men.

In the end, BOTH films would seem accurate in their portrayal of Patton at particular times during WWII.  It is that very complexity of his character that makes him one of the most fascinating and successful commanders in American military history, a distinction he shares with "Stonewall" Jackson and Douglas MacArthur.



Bradley, Eisenhower and Patton (US Army)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 12:46:52 PM by The One Man Gang » Logged

Please use your comments on this post to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Kindly forgo all civility in your discourse. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Thank you.
Jeremy Roenick
Stand-Up Philosopher
Whine and Biscuit King
****

Karma: +12/-45
Online Online

Posts: 2756


Laying down the smack on smug "Progressives"


« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2011, 12:36:20 PM »

Great analysis OMG.  I agree on the Scott portrayal of Patton.  From the accounts I've heard Scott nailed him.

Thanks for the expanded point on Patton and the different movies.  Patton's role in the "Ike" movie was quite limited, but I just saw too much begging and groveling in that brief performance to buy it as a genuine Patton character.
Logged


"When one person can initiate war, by its definition, a republic no longer exists." - Dr. Ron Paul
   
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.15 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
Efsane MC by Fakdordes & Edit Moonsheald
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
The Paul Finebaum Radio Network

SPS ADMIN & Webmaster-PV, ADMIN-OMG, PREZ&ADMIN-RUDEDOG, TBA RESIDENT MONK

Copyright © Sports Parlor South 2010 All Rights Reserved