Iran - Drums of War

[Dementia_Madness]

But what did your daddy teach you about poking a hornet's nest with a stick?

That's why you don't poke them, you pour gasoline over them.

Israel has hundreds of nuclear weapons.  Iran?  Maybe 4?  The Israelis can take care of themselves with our support and weapons.  We have no business conducting covert ops in their country, flying drones over their country, or parading 3 carreir task groups off their shore.  If the Iranians are spoiling for a fight to bring back the 12th Imam, let them take the first shot and then we'll go take care of them.

Why sure we do, if they want to be part of the civilized world then they are beholden to the rest of the world to show them they can...America is often vilified and all kinds of wild accusations and conspiracy theories are bated around to try nd place us on the same level as places like Iran North Korea and such. The fact is we are not, period. You say let them take the first shot, that is stupidity when you are talking about nuclear weapons. We are quickly approaching that now, where the first shot will cost MILLIONS of lives... This was avoidable, it still may be, but unfortunately too many people have the "let them start" attitude, when in fact they already did start it and it has been a slow but steady escalation ever since, I am reminded of Slow Boiled Frog, by the time it realizes the danger it's in it's too late.

We don't need to provoke the fight.

Believe me nothing we do will change their attitude (short of making so they have no capability to do harm (and it dont have to be killing them either) - until we realize that we are stuck where we are), it's kinda like arguing that just because you are standing outside the bar, the drunk guy that comes out, who just don't like the way you look, was somehow provoked by you, we provoke them because we exist, nothing short of our ceasing to do that is going to change their attitude, period.

[NCVol]

we provoke them because we exist, nothing short of our ceasing to do that is going to change their attitude, period.

That's just false, or a dangerous simplification.  We've been interfering in that region for decades.  The Shah was installed by the U.S., just as one example, because Iran decided to kick out the western oil companies and nationalize their oil fields.  They got a brutal dictator in exchange.  We currently have a major military presence on both sides, Iraq and Afghanistan, and have proven again and again that we're willing to take down "unfriendly" governments, and by that meaning governments that don't do our bidding. They have legitimate concerns.  And unfortunately, they just have to look at N.Korea to see what kind of protection a nuke brings.  We can not like it all day, and I'm all for preventing it short of a full blown war, but it's a rational decision that can be explained without referring to the 12 Imam etc.  

Just imagine how we'd feel if China had dissolved our constitution in 1950, supported a brutal thug for 30 years, and currently was flying bombers along the border of Canada and Mexico, with Chinese aircraft carriers patrolling the Gulf of Mexico, having overthrown both governments and engaged in a decade of war.  The notion that we would object to "China" because they exist would be laughable.  We'd object because China had a long history of intervening all over the N.American continent, including some very bad deeds in the U.S., and is at least a potential current threat to our national security and very existence. 

[Dementia_Madness]

That is an excuse they use. It is akin to saying that CAIR provokes  Americans, Christians, or  Jews to hate Muslims here in America because of their actions  \fishing/here and involvement here in our Politics. I love how you warp history to suit your needs too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Shah_Pahlavi

Mohammad Reza came to power during World War II after an Anglo-Soviet invasion forced the abdication of his father Reza Shah. During his reign, the Iranian oil industry was nationalized under Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh, and Iran marked the anniversary of 2,500 years of continuous monarchy since the founding of the Persian Empire by Cyrus the Great. The Shah's White Revolution, a series of economic and social reforms intended to transform Iran into a global power, succeeded in modernizing the nation, nationalizing many natural resources, and extending suffrage to women.

A secular Muslim himself, Mohammad Reza gradually lost support from the Shi'a clergy of Iran, particularly due to his strong policy of modernization, secularization, conflict with the traditional class of merchants known as bazaari, and recognition of Israel. Various additional controversial policies were enacted, including the banning of the communist Tudeh Party, and a general suppression of political dissent by Iran's intelligence agency, SAVAK. Amnesty International reported that in 1978 Iran had as many as 2,200 political prisoners, a number which multiplied rapidly as a result of the revolution

The fact is Iran hates us because we exist and Israel exists...they hate us because of the modern day influence we have..so LIE all you want it wont change history or facts...

http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/ayatollah-kill-all-jews-annihilate-israel/

The Iranian government, through a website proxy, has laid out the legal and religious justification for the destruction of Israel and the slaughter of its people.

Calling Israel a danger to Islam, the conservative website Alef, with ties to Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said the opportunity must not be lost to remove “this corrupting material. It is a ‘jurisprudential justification” to kill all the Jews and annihilate Israel, and in that, the Islamic government of Iran must take the helm.”

THIS is REALITY and revision of History that falls in line with those who seek to justify murder and slaughter and genocide will only serve to keep you as a useful tool for the hatred and evil that births it.  The over simple TRUTH, yes it is simple, but THEY HATE ISRAEL and that is the ultimate truth and ONLY justification they need to hate us...because we will not throw Israel under the bus, and we acknowledge and support the fact that she has a right to exist. Everything else is just excuses and further justifications to prop up THAT ultimate justification.

[Jeremy Roenick]

Just imagine how we'd feel if China had dissolved our constitution in 1950, supported a brutal thug for 30 years, and currently was flying bombers along the border of Canada and Mexico, with Chinese aircraft carriers patrolling the Gulf of Mexico, having overthrown both governments and engaged in a decade of war.  The notion that we would object to "China" because they exist would be laughable.  We'd object because China had a long history of intervening all over the N.American continent, including some very bad deeds in the U.S., and is at least a potential current threat to our national security and very existence.  

There is no intellectually honest answer to this other than to say it is an act of war.  If China was killing US scientists, flying drones over CA and parading warships up and down the west coast, we would call that an act of war and fire the first shot.  The perception that the USA's foreign policy is somehow "above reproach" benevolent and is honorable because by-in-large the people of America are an honorable people is detached from reality.  We have a large segment of society that thinks this way, and I used to be one of them.  I know.  The blind faith in following America's misguided foreign policy is lunacy.  It will continue to get us into war after war, and one day it will reign down fire on the USA because of our interference in the world.

We are a benevolent people, and sometimes, that is our biggest short-coming.  We trust our politicians and policy makers way too much.

[NCVol]

That is an excuse they use. It is akin to saying that CAIR provokes  Americans, Christians, or  Jews to hate Muslims here in America because of their actions  \fishing/here and involvement here in our Politics. I love how you warp history to suit your needs too.

THIS is REALITY and revision of History that falls in line with those who seek to justify murder and slaughter and genocide will only serve to keep you as a useful tool for the hatred and evil that births it.  The over simple TRUTH, yes it is simple, but THEY HATE ISRAEL and that is the ultimate truth and ONLY justification they need to hate us...because we will not throw Israel under the bus, and we acknowledge and support the fact that she has a right to exist. Everything else is just excuses and further justifications to prop up THAT ultimate justification.

Yeah, you're right, I made up  Operation Ajax.....  Nothing there, move along...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax

JR said it well.  We can, as Americans, support those acts as in our best interests.  That's fine.  But it's delusional to pretend that's it's as simple as "They hate us for our freedoms" or "They hate us because of our support of Israel."  The last is surely a piece of the puzzle, but they also might hate us because of our decades long history of intervention in the politics of the region, as well as the FACT that we have them surrounded on two sides with a massive military presence, and are otherwise engaged in what JR rightly calls "acts of war" if they are targeted against the U.S.  We are an imminent threat. 

Seriously, can you really imagine China was engaged in similar activities in Mexico, Cuba, Canada, the Gulf of Mexico etc. and not see the parallels with the U.S. and the ME? 

[Jeremy Roenick]

Ran across this little vid this A.M.  Israeli comedy troop parodies the mysterious Iranian explosions in this latest Samsung tablet ad.  Running on Israeli cable TV.  Mad mullahs have responded by banning all Samsung products from Iran.

Kind of reminds me of the morbid American sense of humor when it comes to war/death/enemies of the state.  Americans can laugh at parodies of Hitler to Saddam Hussein.  It seems the Israelis are similar in this regard.

Iran banning Samsung products over an Israeli Ad (Subtitled)

[Sasquatch]

WW3? Pick your sides now:

Iran to deploy 15,000 troops to help Syria’s Assad

http://www.infowars.com/latest-iran-deploys-15000-troops-to-help-syrias-assad/

Who is up for this year's Nobel Peace Prize? 

[Sasquatch]

I put this on the Police State thread, but it can also go here just so everybody knows:

Pakistan sure has had enough:

*Pakistan blasts US blitz
*Hints they may hit back
*Pledges support for Iran

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4115452/Pakistan-blasts-lethal-US-drone-attacks.html

That last one is bad. I guess this could also go on the Iran thread. Obama is such a peacemaker.  

Sides are being chosen! Krugman is ecstatic!

[Jeremy Roenick]

Sides indeed.  It seems Syria may have moved into the hot seat in the last couple weeks.  The first front of WWIII is emerging.

Drums of War update: Syria edition.

http://www.debka.com/article/21720/

As US and Israel dicker over Iran strike, American airlifts strength to the Gulf

debkafile's military sources report that flight after flight of US warplanes and transports were to be seen this week cutting eastward through the skies of Sinai on their way to Gulf destinations, presumably Saudi Arabia, at a frequency not seen in the Middle East for many years.

http://www.debka.com/article/21696/

Assad may start regional war if UN tells him to step down – Gulf sources

Earlier still on May 10, one of Assad's close kinsmen, the international tycoon Rami Makhlouf, warned: "If there is no stability in Syria, there will be none in Israel. No one can be sure what will happens after that. God help us if anything befalls this regime."

The military build up in the Arabian Sea and in Saudi Arabia is getting next to no coverage in the mainstream media.  The saber rattling gets plenty of coverage, but the build up does not.  Fasten your seat belts children, it's about to get bumpy.

[Jeremy Roenick]

First it was Iranian scientists blowing up in cars, now it's Israeli diplomats blowing up in cars.  Me thinks the motorcycle has become the vehicle of choice among assassins.

AV, you still think there's no war being fought?

Israel blames Iran for India and Georgia bombings

[MRM]

The enemies of Israel continue to fill in the circle around them.

[Dementia_Madness]

Remember what I said about the truth here on this thread about Israel and her enemies...

Second would be to condemn those who wish to destroy her and set the record straight about the TRUTH of the situation, instead of perpetuating the lies and myths dreamed up by the enemy, and continually repeated by so many in the west. That would go a long way towards helping tone down the rhetoric of the liars and thugs.

 just one more example of how the left lies and darkness protects darkness..from the debate...a question about how owuld you deal with Iran, became how would you deal with Israel...

http://bigjournalism.com/jpollak/2012/02/23/john-king-protects-obama-and-iran-in-cnndebate/

During last night’s Republican presidential debate, a member of the audience stood up and asked the candidates a very simple question on Iran (my emphasis):

    QUESTION: Hi, my name is Ken Taylor (ph) from Wickenberg, Arizona and my question to all the candidates is, how do you plan on dealing with the growing nuclear threat in Iran?

It’s a very important and timely question, given that President Barack Obama has effectively granted the Iranian regime an additional four years to develop its nuclear program, after placating eagerly seduced pro-Israel Democrats with the false promise: “I will always keep the threat of military action on the table to defend our security and our ally Israel.”

The simple and direct question from the audience invited the candidates to contrast their policies with Obama’s failed record on Iran–and on Israel, which Obama has exposed to existential danger on this and other issues. But before any of the candidates could answer, CNN moderator John King stepped in to turn the question around completely (my emphasis):

   KING: It’s a pressing question at the moment. Mr. Speaker, let’s go to you first on this one. I want to ask you in the context of the president’s and this country’s highest ranking military officer, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Dempsey told CNN this last week, quote, “A strike at this time would be destabilizing and would not achieve Israel’s long term objectives.” If you win this election, General Dempsey would still be — would then be your chairman of the joint chiefs.

    If the prime minister of Israel called you, said he wanted to go forward and questioned, Sir do you agree — Mr. President do you agree with your chairman of the joint chiefs? Would you say, yes, Mr. Prime Minister, please stand down? Or would you give Israel the green light?

So the question “how would you deal with Iran?” became “how would you deal with Israel?

 

Kinda reminds me of how many on the left liked to call the War in Iraq "Bush's war" and gave Saddam a pass. Imagine if the allies were blamed for all the atrocities committed by the Nazis and Japanese during WWII...wait some liberals like to do that to.